Visualizing Beta
April 1, 2008 by roissy
A reader sent me a link to the photo above. You can read more here. His mug says “2 hot 4 you?”.
The beta on display here is so over the top that I want to believe it is calculated. Sadly, I suspect this nerd, like most nerds, really is that uncomfortable touching women. If he were making a six figure salary in the IT industry I doubt that would be enough to end his celibacy. There are some fundamental aspects of attractive masculinity that, if missing, money can’t compensate until you get up in the extreme wealth range. Or lower your standards to the basement (see girl on right — the one he doesn’t have his awkwardly crooked arm around).
Learning game through books, manuals, and workshops gets a bad rap by naturals who think it’s an unteachable skill and by women who recoil at the idea that something so sublime as romance and sexual attraction can be learned like any other subject. But the guy in this picture would benefit from a learning approach that played to his strengths — i.e., a systematic backwardly-engineered flow charted algorithm of how to be a more alluring man to women. Like Mystery Method. Or any of the other pickup schools. Due to genetic constraints on behavior he may never get as good as a natural, but he’ll get good enough to know how to relax when touching a woman, and, if he’s dedicated to improving himself, may actually score with a decent-looking girl. Nothing will blow a nerd’s mind like showing him there’s a whole other world of sensual pleasure out there.
In the big picture, it’s too bad women find nerds creepy and unattractive, because we need nerds more than ever to run the modern technology-based society. If they are bred out of existence it will be everyone’s loss. Imagine a world with no internet porn.
On the other hand, if nerds started getting laid on the regular they might enjoy it so much that they give up spending their waking hours programming software or designing bridges. I wouldn’t blame them.
It’s like the one hot girl on the yearbook committee. She gets to be queen of the nerds with the secret crush on the popular guy.
It hurts me to see the lifetime of anguish in this boy’s future. Roissy, quick, hunt him down and take him under your wing..lol
OTOH he may be working on the formula for cold fusion….
You talk about his genetic constraints, but honestly, I see someone with the potential to be pretty good looking. He has good features, so you can just give him contacts and a makeover with hair and clothing. Most importantly, he seems skinny so there’s not a lot of fat to lose. I’d just take him to the gym and make him do deadlifts and squats and snatches till he puked. Then I’d kick his ass for good measure. A few months of that combined with a good inner game book and some time in the field and he’d be a player in no time.
I kind of dig nerds. Especially computer nerds. Does that make me weird?
No, but I’m guessing you’re in your late 20s or probably out of your 20s altogether and care more about reliability and security than excitement and alphaness at this point in your life. If your 24 or under though, then yeah, you probably are weird.
I agree with T. The kid does have potential. He looks tall, physically fit, and intelligent. His face is expressive, which protects him from blandness. And he looks like a good guy. What is he, about 19 or 20? Do take him under your wing, Roissy. His fate is in balance. To save one nerd is to save the whole world.
By the way, I’m curious about your girl-scale benchmark. How do you rate these girls? I’ll say a 9 for the blonde, who has a really cute Reese Witherspoon smile, and a 4-with-potential for the other girl. She’s not fat, and a makeover might give her an extra few points. She’s also appearing intimidated by her hotter friend.
That’s a very good point. That’s something that’s hard to teach,which already gives him an advantage.
Another point for the kid: a relaxed, open shirt at the neck. You can read it either as slovenliness, or as him being comfortable with his own body (if not quite with women’s bodies).
I’m betting the girl on the right is pretty but doesn’t photograph well - judging by her stance, she doesn’t like to have her picture taken. I can relate.
T., yup, I’m over 30. But I’ve always liked quirky introverts, and those guys tend to be computer nerds.
He has good features, so you can just give him contacts and a makeover with hair and clothing.
If anyone needs a hair makeover it’s the dude on the left. I mean, is he trying to style his hair to resemble a used floor mop?
Shannon,
What you fail to mention to T is that you to are a nerd (gifted program) so you’ve always been surrounded by them, there for have a natural attraction to them out of comfort. If you grew up cheerleading, sorrority, blah blah blah like 80% of girls in the US you wouldn’t touch dude with a 10ft pole.
Roissy
You are right, naturals do hate on the pick up schools because the nerds there have broken down what they do to a science and proven any guy can play to his strengths and get a cute girl. It’s like you bastards let the cat out of the bag
Fuck
And VK wins the prize…yup, I was a nerd in high school and more of a party girl later on. The guys I met when I was a nerd treated me far better than the guys I met as a party girl, so now I prefer to date nerds. I think I’m happier than the overgrown cheerleaders who go after player/cool guy alpha types.
I think the guy is cute - he has a really friendly smile, which counts for a lot in my book. And he should keep the glasses, I like them.
Anyone want to assign guesstimated bhavior type ( alpha, beta, gamma? ) to all the other people in the picture? From left to right? Roissy? Readers?
I’m betting the girl on the right is pretty but doesn’t photograph well
I’ll take that bet. I am not trying to be mean, but, she ain’t pretty. Not in the picture and not in real life.
But, yeah, she probably doesn’t like having her picture taken.
“I’m betting the girl on the right is pretty but doesn’t photograph well”
Wait, there’s a girl on the right?
–
So roissy is this a photo of you in college before the mystery method seminar?
The hot chick is definitely smirking and stoked to be the hottest in her circle of nerds.
theres definitely some between the lines reason for her (hot girl) to be in this picture.
No one saw the photoshopped version?
http://reddit.com/info/6dyov/comments/
I was a nerd in high school and more of a party girl later on.
I was a nerd in elementary school and been a nerd ever since. I am a professional nerd now, too. My nerdy guy friends and boyfriends (now husband) have always made me even nerdier, introducing me to IRC, hacking, building computers, D&D, science fiction novels, comic books and video games. Web design/coding was all me, though.
I’m betting the girl on the right is pretty but doesn’t photograph well
The girl on the right needs to 1) do something else with her hair 2) wear sluttier clothing and 3) wear some makeup to emphasize her eyes and make her lips look fuller. The girl on the left looks like she has makeup on, and white girls tend to look a lot better with makeup. She also needs to look demurely at the camera, straight on, and smile with the corners of her mouth up, not with her lips pressed together.
Incidentally, I know a tall, pretty blonde “queen of the nerds” girl. All the guys in her circle had crushes on her, and she even dated one of them. Ultimately she married some completely random Asian guy she met online playing Tribes 2. They were playing Guild Wars or World of Warcraft together last I heard. This is proof that queen nerd girls still prefer nerds. Otherwise they wouldn’t hang with them.
The guy needs to wait about 5 years — he looks like a guy who hasn’t had his burst of testosterone yet (look at his chin, jaw, and his face / body in general). Some guys just mature late. I didn’t develop a more masculine jaw / chin, or benefit from weightlifting, until about 23.
The good thing is that late-bloomers tend to look 5 years younger than their true age, meaning they have a much easier time talking to younger girls.
So that’s my advice to the guy: you have low T right now, so you won’t benefit much from pickup artist stuff. Accomplish shit for 5 years, then give it a try if you show signs of masculinization.
The girl on the left looks like she has makeup on, and white girls tend to look a lot better with makeup.
makeup has nothing to do with the looks disparity between the two girls. the girl on the left simply possesses much more attractive facial structure than the warpig on the right. any woman who says that all the warpig needs is better lighting and hair styling is lying to herself or has a completely warped view of what men find physically attractive in women.
i’d rate the left girl an 8 and the right girl a 2.5.
Poor kid. I’m glad I was an awkward introverted teenager in the days before the internet.
Heh, I wouldn’t have even pegged the guy as a guy…. very androgynous (hairstyle, glasses, build).
“doesn’t photograph well” : attractiveness :: “doesn’t test well” : intelligence
any woman who says that all the warpig needs is better lighting and hair styling is lying to herself or has a completely warped view of what men find physically attractive in women.
Actually, I’m being quite realistic. Makeup artists make a living doing this kid of thing. Economics is the hardest proof that men respond to makeup, written with the logic of monetary exchange.
http://www.makeupbyshawn.com/b-4%20after3.html
http://www.facemaker.ca/page127.html (collection #1-4)
As hard as I tried to find something offensive in your post, roissy; alas I’ve failed. That was almost genteel. I’m truly shocked.
Hey Roissy, put this version up:
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r186/davecordigg/Victory.jpg
Cracked me up.
Hope, the problem with your examples in the links is that while each of them improved, not of them dramatically went from say a 3 to a 9 or anything. The ones that started off ugly just got a little less ugly, the ones that started off cute went to hot. If you dressed up warpig she’d be a strong 5 or weak 6 at best.
hope you are out to lunch if you think makeup can improve the warpig’s sexual market value to such an extent that she’ll be in competition with the pretty blonde girl. in my experience (and whose opinion should people trust more? mine, or yours? i am a guy after all and i know better than you what most guys find attractive) makeup and nice lighting will add a MAXIMUM of 1 point to a woman’s looks. i have been around and have yet to meet a woman who was able to misrepresent herself more than 1 point on the looks scale with makeup.
those pics you posted aren’t that impressive, and the difference in the before and afters isn’t that great once you remember that the most unflattering before pics were chosen for contrast. in fact, none of those women look that much better in the after pics, except for the few genuinely pretty women with attractive facial bone structure who looked good in the before pics as well. and don’t forget, that flattering lighting isn’t going to follow them around town all day.
unattractive women are deceiving themselves if they think all they need to do is expertly apply makeup and guys will be all over them. sorry, men have evolved to quickly identify fakers. and in extreme cases where we are duped, there’s always the morning after to lay to rest the deception.
As hard as I tried to find something offensive in your post, roissy; alas I’ve failed. That was almost genteel. I’m truly shocked.
that’s because i mocked a guy. once i turn my firepower on loser women you’ll be back to getting your granny panties in a bunch.
he’s probably hilarious. i think i have seen this individual at every minimal techno party i have ever attended. just staring at the DJ, filled with latent rage, refusing to dance.
Are we sure the pic isn’t a fake? The kid’s shoulder seems a good four inches higher-up than his arm.
If it is a real photo … Well, at least he’s trying. He does need a lot of coaching and experience, though. I know nothing about “game” or any of that stuff. But some things I am familiar with that Betas and nerds might get a lot out of:
* Acting classes, especially improv. Learn how to be in the moment, and to think and feel on your feet. Plus a bonus: Great way to meet and interact with vivacious (and sex-loving) girls. I defy any male to take two years of acting and not have a lot of adventures.
* Yoga. Classes are roughly 80% female. And even if you don’t meet the girl of your dreams via yoga, it’ll relax you and tone you, and leave you with a lot more tolerance for girlchat about food, feelings, and spiritual things. You’ll be more attractive to girls, and more relaxed about interacting with them on every level.
* Cooking classes. Food is sexy, fun, and physical, and chicks dig a man who knows how to cook and eat. Getting comfy with food-preparation is great training for getting comfy with girls’ bodies: you’re interacting profitably with smells, ickiness, textures, sensuality, etc. And the activity gets the inner juices flowing, if you know what I mean. Plus it’s a great way to meet girls.
* Dance classes. I know dance classes are agony for most hetero American guys, but there’s little that’s better for a klutzy guy. Modern or jazz classes: great physical training, sexy in itself (once you’re over the gayness of it), and a great way to meet attractive girls who are comfy with their bodies. Partner-dance classes: fab and unintimidating training for interacting with girls you don’t know, and for learning how to share touch and rhythm with a partner.
A nice thing about all these activities is that you don’t have to be any good at them, and you never have to become any good at them. It’s the experience that’s everything. A couple of nice discoveries that you make if you go this route: 1) yoga, cooking, etc — it’s kinda fun. 2) Most women in these activities are amazingly sweet and forgiving. They like you just for being there, for taking part, for being interested, and for trying. Experiencing that kind of female warmth and acceptingness is mighty nice in its own right.
Roissy, you’ll never be convinced about this one, I know. I suppose you would have to be a woman who, like me, has been perceived as both a beauty (at least by some men, including alpha-dominant types) and as plain as a mud-fence, in order to believe the difference that hair, makeup, clothes - and in my case, above all, attitude - can make. (I’m speaking of the days of my youth here, of course.) In my case the big change in male attention levels came with ditching my glasses, but even that didn’t make as much of a difference as starting to be more animated and friendly when I was out in public.
And even when I was as old as 40 I occasionally won in the male attention sweepstakes against younger, pretty women. Perhaps these men would only have “pumped and dumped” because of my age, if I’d given them the chance - but I didn’t. Anyway, the point is that age isn’t an absolute determinant here, either.
I feel ridiculous saying things like this in a public forum, even anonymously, but I can’t let men and women who read this site believe that beauty is quite as simple as you make it out to be.
28 roissy
“that’s because i mocked a guy. once i turn my firepower on loser women you’ll be back to getting your granny panties in a bunch.”
I gave up the grannie’s. Hmmmm.. perhaps I need to take another look at this post. I know, I’ll find some Osho for you.
if you think makeup can improve the warpig’s sexual market value to such an extent that she’ll be in competition with the pretty blonde girl.
That’s a pretty far-fetched strawman, since I never said that. I said this is what she needs to do, but I never said that she would be in direct competition with the blonde. She would be able to look decent on her own if she took those steps, however.
unattractive women are deceiving themselves if they think all they need to do is expertly apply makeup and guys will be all over them.
I never said makeup alone is going to make men flock toward a woman who is deemed unattractive. It can, however, be combined with fashion changes (more revealing dresses), facial changes (smiles), attitude changes (less withdrawn, more confident, etc.) and exercise to make a woman more competitive in the sexual market.
Fashion changes, attitude changes, exercise, etc. can make men more attractive to women. Would you disagree with this? If not, then why would you disagree that these would work for women as well?
i am a guy after all and i know better than you what most guys find attractive
The worldwide annual expenditures for cosmetics is around $18 billion USD. The fashion and clothing industries likely make more than that. It’s quite clear that these things do work to fool a lot of men.
You might not be personally fooled, but I suspect that you only see the best presentation of the women you sleep with as well. In the dating stages everyone is faking or hiding something, whether it be appearances, personality, actions, or all of the above.
“IT IS NOT PERMITTED TO COPY OR POST THIS PICTURE IN ANY WAY.”
What does he think this is, his personal diary?
“The second level is psychological–of the mind, of the heart. For couples who fall in love and then get married, the experience of sex goes a little deeper than the physical level. Their sex is at the heart level; it reached psychological depth. But because of repetitiveness, this also reverts to the physical level after a while and becomes mechanical.
The institution of marriage that has developed in the West over the last two hundred years takes sex to the psychological level. And that is why the societies of the West are in chaos. The reason for this is that you cannot rely on the mind. Today the mind desires one thing, tomorrow it will ask for something else. It wants one thing in the morning, and something else in the evening. What it feels now will be totally different from what it felt only moments ago.” — Osho ‘Sex Matters”
And now back to our regularly scheduled Glorious Natural Pelt.
33 Hope
I agree with you and think the “warpig” and the nerd would make a great pair. She just looks introverted and he looks extroverted; they could balance each other out. She could get “made over” the same as him, but deep down they would still hopefully be nerds in all their quirky fun-loving nerdy glory and innocence.
I suppose you would have to be a woman who, like me, has been perceived as both a beauty (at least by some men, including alpha-dominant types) and as plain as a mud-fence, in order to believe the difference that hair, makeup, clothes - and in my case, above all, attitude - can make.
your perception of your innate beauty was being influenced by the fact that men react differently to a woman when she is wearing makeup. a made-up woman in high heels and a slinky dress incites a more aggressive flirting mechanism in men, because they see her, justifiably more often than not, as a women on the prowl for a mate. a cute girl without makeup won’t incite the same flirtatious response because she is, paradoxically, more intimidating to men in that she projects an air of unavailability. that does not mean that men don’t find her attractive, it just means they won’t show their approval of her beauty as aggressively.
In my case the big change in male attention levels came with ditching my glasses, but even that didn’t make as much of a difference as starting to be more animated and friendly when I was out in public.
glasses aren’t the beauty-killer a lot of women think they are. a cute chick in contacts will be just as cute in glasses. again, it’s all about the underlying facial bone structure. if you perceived an increase in attention it probably had to do with the aura of approachability that ditching the glasses gave you.
and of course being friendlier in public will garner you more male attention. this has nothing to do with your innate beauty. men, being expert at navigating the path of least resistance to sex, will naturally try their hand at an outgoing 7 instead of a cold, recalcitrant 8. but if the 8 were to be friendlier, the 7 would suddenly find herself in stiffer (heh) competition.
Perhaps these men would only have “pumped and dumped” because of my age, if I’d given them the chance - but I didn’t.
smart move. trust your instincts.
Anyway, the point is that age isn’t an absolute determinant here, either.
nothing is absolute, but the trends are unmistakable.
but I can’t let men and women who read this site believe that beauty is quite as simple as you make it out to be.
get used to it. sorry, clio, the facts of female beauty really are that simple. you’re either born with a genetically blessed face, or you are not. and pissing around on the margins with makeup and clothes won’t improve your lot by much.
Blowhard…you know what’s funny about dancing? Like most people in the west, you describe it as gay (”overcoming the gayness of it, etc”
but someone made a great point to me recently. The more betaized a culture becomes, the more dnacing becomes stigmatized and associated with gayness. Look at Saturday Night Fever or black culture like old 70s Soul Train clips and then see if dancing is really gay. In tribal, more primal cultures, dancing is not only sexual but primarily practiced by men and very alpha men at that. In some primal cultures the women are even forbidden to dance without permission. Carribean cultures, eastern cultures, hispanic cultures, any cultures that still cling to old school macho ideals or alpha swagger really place a premium on male dancing. I think all men, especially white western men, should learn to be comfortable dancing if they want to become more alpha.
T. — Amen to that!
Hope, I would love to see those before and after pictures with:
1. The same lighting for both before and after. (I mean, damn, the black girl looks black in the before picture and half-black/half-white in the second)
2. Normal before picture. That is, they don’t strip themselves of basic hygeine and cleanliness.
3. Same smile (or non-smile) and head-tilt/angle for both before and after pics.
I bet you the differences would be nice, but minor.
Are we sure the pic isn’t a fake? The kid’s shoulder seems a good four inches higher-up than his arm.
It does look strange, but most likely it’s an illusion caused by the way his sweater is bunched up.
His arm also seems unusually long. While that could be an indication of a faked picture, it’s also quite possible that he really is long-limbed. He seems to be quite tall, though the way he’s bent forward at the waist de-emphasizes his height (intentionally?) to some extent.
In addition, his silly grin - likely intentional - makes his look dorkier than he probably is.
As for the “warpig” on the right, her main physical flaw is a rather round face. It makes her look overweight even though she actually isn’t. I’m assuming that a better hair style could de-emphasize the roundness of her face and improve her appearance to a considerable extent.
Clio, you are talking about two different things.
With the glasses, yes, that can make a difference. Especially on the type of glasses worn.
But, with the attitude, you are now talking about approachability. That is, more guys might be approaching because of you attitude, not because they thought you were hotter.
Case in point, Jennifer Aniston was one of the prettier Hollywood stars in her day. But she always had that god damn sourpuss on her face. Whereas most other girls in Hollywood, I am assuming, had a more fun attitude. I mean, how could they not.
I bet the 7.5’s of Hollywood got approached more than the 9.5 that was Jennifer Aniston.
38 T
“I think all men, especially white western men, should learn to be comfortable dancing if they want to become more alpha.”
Amen to that.
clio, give it up. the proof is right at the top. How much makeup is the girl on the left wearing? Almost none, some eye liner, maybe some lip-gloss. Shiiiiiit. She even has her hair pulled back, is wearing no revealing clothing except that everything fits tight enough for you to tell, she’s in shape. Come on!
That’s a pretty far-fetched strawman, since I never said that. I said this is what she needs to do, but I never said that she would be in direct competition with the blonde.
you implied it when you said that white women benefit more from wearing makeup, and pointed out that the girl on the left was made up in contrast to the warpig who was not.
you need to learn the concept of implied thought. you seem to have a habit of post hoc dismissing the implications of what you write when you are called out on your dumb assertions.
to wit: the warpig is a 2.5, and won’t go higher than a 3 with better clothes, a smile, and makeup.
She [warpig] would be able to look decent on her own if she took those steps, however.
no, she really wouldn’t. you don’t know what you’re talking about. but keep on keeping on with that sisterhood pep talk!
Fashion changes, attitude changes, exercise, etc. can make men more attractive to women. Would you disagree with this?
no. but not for the reasons you assume. physical beauty is not the critical component for men’s sexual market value like it is for women.
If not, then why would you disagree that these would work for women as well?
what women can achieve by fashion and attitude adjustments is miniscule in comparison to the value they bring to the table in the form of their genetic beauty blessings.
The fashion and clothing industries likely make more than that. It’s quite clear that these things do work to fool a lot of men.
i never said they don’t work at all, just that the amount they help a woman’s cause is much smaller than believed by the consumers of the multi-billion dollar cosmetics industry. but hey, any little bit helps.
and remember, the alpha males women want are most adept at sniffing out fakers owing to their experience dating and fucking lots of naturally beautiful women. you may be able to get one by a beta but an alpha is more discerning. you ever listen in on alpha male conversation? it ain’t pretty. that little bit of caked on makeup that barely conceals your crow’s feet is being dissected by men to such a cruel degree that it would send most women crying in their eyeliner smeared kleenex.
You might not be personally fooled, but I suspect that you only see the best presentation of the women you sleep with as well.
that’s a given. everyone presents their best face in the beginning of courtship. but any woman who manages to dupe a male much higher than her in market value with makeup and fashion will soon learn that the morning after is the unkindest cut of all.
T, I think that you are off a litle with the dancing. I don’t think it was Beta-ness that killed dancing, but the huge number of engineers, scientists and techs that America produced in the twentieth century.
It is hard to think of the Alphas at Los Alamos or the Manhattan Project dancing the night away after a hard work week.
Also, almost all tradition dancing has structure to it. A lot of structure. Lets not forget that White People in the South used to dance all the time, and I am not just talking about line-dancing. But, it always seemed to have plenty of structure.
Now that dancing is mostly free-form to Justin Timberlake songs, yeah, it does seem a little gay.
Remember, Musicals were not started or, initially, created by Gay Men, but they sure as hell flocked to them. And the same goes for Free Form dancing.
How many Gay Men were interested in the more structured dancing (relative to free-form)?
I ain’t hatin’ on dancing, just sayin’
#37, Roissy: I’m sure you’re partly right - I mean, I did/do have good bone structure. But my point is that behind a certain facade of bad attitude and schlumpy presentation, men won’t notice good bone structure much. And my perception of my appeal wasn’t merely subjective - I’m going by things that boys/men actually said to me, or said in my hearing, about my ugliness, and later about my supposed beauty. Though I never really trust that sort of compliment - a man once told me that “you’re beautiful” is a polite way of saying “take your clothes off” - though in some contexts this probably wasn’t what they meant.
And I’ve known many other women who’ve had that same experience. The girl in the photo isn’t a beauty, but she could be cute - her face is too round, but her features are all in good proportion to each other - her nose is big but not blobby or crooked, and her hair is a beautiful (and natural) auburn.
that little bit of caked on makeup that barely conceals your crow’s feet is being dissected by men to such a cruel degree that it would send most women crying in their eyeliner smeared kleenex.
I always found that women were worse than men in that respect. Dissecting every little mis-step. Guys tend to be more: “I’d hit it.” or “Nah, NEXT!”
And now back to our regularly scheduled Glorious Natural Pelt.
Well, since you brought it up …
My reasoned guess is that the girl on the right indeed has a Glorious Natural Pelt. At most, she might have done a little modest trimming that doesn’t change the natural upside-down triangle shape.
As for the girl on the left, while there’s a very slight chance that she has a Landing Strip, I’m 99% sure that she has gone for the full Bald Eagle look :(((
45 roissy,
“that little bit of caked on makeup that barely conceals your crow’s feet is being dissected by men to such a cruel degree that it would send most women crying in their eyeliner smeared kleenex.”
So the prize winning alpha then ends up with what?–if that is his life long goal; to fuck only line-less nubile women. An impossible standard that even they cannot achieve. Look at men like Jack Nicholson and Hugh Hefner; especially Hefner. He’s just infantile but now has his own “reality” show. It’s what his life has become; a made-for-TV joke.
A man who is incapable of looking one iota (line) beyond the physical appearance of a woman is suffering from terminal arrested development. Hugh Hefner and Jack Nicholson, to use two very famous examples, are not beautiful old men. They are just plain ugly regardless of how supposedly beautiful the women are who they fuck. A beautiful old man is as rare as a pink diamond. Yet, they exist, because they have explored the deepest depths of sexual experience and no longer lust after women young enough to be their daughter’s best friend.
O.K. So now you’re going to say I’m jealous, right? Like I would even WANT to fuck some puerile Alpha loser? Losers come in all shapes and sizes and some are living the American Dream life as seen on TV.
Makeup only goes so far and I have to agree with Roissy here: the makeup comes off at some point and people see what you really look like. Of course, this holds the same with wonderbras, spanx, and corsets–the real you will always emerge as the whole point is to get naked. The only way we can truly control how we look is by hitting the gym and laying off the nachos; other than that, we have to deal with the hand we were dealt.
you implied it when you said that white women benefit more from wearing makeup, and pointed out that the girl on the left was made up in contrast to the warpig who was not.
It was a white man (married to a white woman) who said to me that white women benefit more from wearing makeup. I’m merely repeating what he said of his observations of white women he knows with vs. without makeup. I didn’t imply anything by repeating his statement.
you need to learn the concept of implied thought. you seem to have a habit of post hoc dismissing the implications of what you write when you are called out on your dumb assertions.
See above. Don’t be hating on the “dumb assertions” of your fellow white man.
physical beauty is not the critical component for men’s sexual market value like it is for women.
Genetically speaking, a good looking man and a pretty woman will produce better looking children than an ugly man and a pretty woman. This is biological impetus for pretty women to select for attractive men (assortative mating).
Other men on other blogs have pointed out that attractive men are able to get away with more. I won’t repeat their observations here, but suffice it to say that while not a critical component, it certainly counts. You play down the importance of looks for men, but you are being intellectually dishonest because your photos reveal that a great deal of your “game” is in your looks.
you ever listen in on alpha male conversation? it ain’t pretty. that little bit of caked on makeup that barely conceals your crow’s feet is being dissected by men to such a cruel degree that it would send most women crying in their eyeliner smeared kleenex.
I listen in on plenty of male conversation, and the things they say are generally the same. My husband says some very cruel things of women, but he never directs those comments at me. This is why I recommend women keep up their looks, marry someone who genuinely loves them, and not wait until they are older to settle down.
what women can achieve by fashion and attitude adjustments is miniscule in comparison to the value they bring to the table in the form of their genetic beauty blessings.
There are other genetic blessings that are heritable besides bone structure and facial beauty, including but not limited to: intelligence, personality, musical/artistic/logical talents, longevity, and health. Of these, health is only marginally reflected by facial symmetry, while the others can be valuable for a variety of other reasons.
But my point is that behind a certain facade of bad attitude and schlumpy presentation, men won’t notice good bone structure much.
a naturally beautiful woman would have to work hard at schlumping herself out to sufficiently hide her beauty from men, but, yes, i’ve seen this happen. severe slouching, hair in the face, frowning, poorly applied makeup, and wearing bulky sweaters that hide her figure are usually required.
which brings up another point: bad makeup will do a lot worse for a woman than good makeup will help her.
And my perception of my appeal wasn’t merely subjective - I’m going by things that boys/men actually said to me, or said in my hearing, about my ugliness, and later about my supposed beauty.
if you were attractive to the majority of men then the smart play is to take everything they say regarding your sexual market value with a grain of salt.
The girl in the photo isn’t a beauty, but she could be cute - her face is too round, but her features are all in good proportion to each other - her nose is big but not blobby or crooked, and her hair is a beautiful (and natural) auburn.
women like yourself are much more forgiving in their assessments of other girls’ attractiveness. it’s a defense mechanism — a sisterhood posturing of optimism — that isn’t justified by the facts. said facts being how attractive the girl is in reality to MEN.
the warpig can never be cute. it’s not that she isn’t a beauty; it’s that she isn’t even in the running. taken together — bulbous face, small closely spaced eyes, bad skin texture, big nose, thin lips, prominent jawline — she qualifies as ugly and no amount of tinkering with makeup or hair style will bump her into the “cute” range.
these are the ugly truths women have the hardest time accepting.
As predicted, Roissy takes a shot at women and candy cane is lashing out.
Clearly, candy cane hates to contemplate that men evaluate women because she usually comes out on the losing end of those considerations. (Alternatively, she’s got intense psychological issues that make her feel like she should be rejected even if she looks good.)
candy, if you have any response to this, make it a picture or keep it to yourself. We’re only interested in knowing whether it is your face or soul that is disfigured.
You play down the importance of looks for men, but you are being intellectually dishonest because your photos reveal that a great deal of your “game” is in your looks.
hope, my notch count quintupled in both quantity and quality when i learned game, while my looks stayed the same.
lesson: looks help men, but without game they are a wasted resource. but on women, looks are never a wasted resource.
I don’t know about the Manhattan project, but the Alamo guys in Davy Crockett days the men were big into dancing, particularly barn dances. There’s even a popular folk tale about Davy Crockett that claims he won over his wife by outdancing every other guy at the barn dance. It’s apocryphal and likely untrue, but it shows how valued the ability to dance was even among Alamo alphas. Hell, George Washington was even known as a lover of the minuet and an avid, avid dancer. Women would actually line up to dance with him at parties.
Freeform dancing has always existed along with very formalized dancing. Like Irish jigs, tap dancing, salsa, breakdancing were all considered alpha in their heyday yet they all have freeform elements mixed with the rigid rules.
Honestly, I think gays just gravitated to music and dance mainly because they are the last of the white men in the west who really felt comfortable with expressing their sexuality overtly and publicly. At least until disco came along and made it cool for straight white men to dance again…
Yes, more nerd talk. Any post about nerds gets tons of hits because nerds own the internet
53 roissy
“these are the ugly truths women have the hardest accepting.”
You fail to fully realize that some of the most miserable human beings on the planet are ravishingly beautiful women. Gee, I wonder why fucking all those prize winning alpha’s has not made them happy? Any ideas on that? It seems actually the reverse has happened to them. Go figger.
54 Widget
” We’re only interested in knowing whether it is your face or soul that is disfigured.”
The soul CANNOT be disfigured.
Hope:
“The worldwide annual expenditures for cosmetics is around $18 billion USD. The fashion and clothing industries likely make more than that. It’s quite clear that these things do work to fool a lot of men. ”
This could just as much mean women are trying to look better in the eyes of other women. Men really don’t care if Heidi Klum is wearing the latest Prada or Fendi. Her facial bone structure is exquisite. To a lesser degree, the same is true for the blonde chick photographed. Men easily see through the bullsh&t that is called fashion. I’m not kidding- I think the chick on the right is so ugly she should consider never having kids and sparing them a life of being probably ugly themselves- and I’m honestly not trying to be mean spirited when I say this, just sadly realistic. That’s how ugly she is and not all the Gucci clothes or plastic surgery can effectively change her basic facial bone structure she inherited- unfortunately.
On a similar note, does anyone notice how much more diverse the fashion industry is than porn? Go to a site like porneskimo (I think) and see their ranking for the hottest porn stars. 90-95+% are white females (with a majority of blondes at that). The rest are uber- attractive Asians and an ultra rare types other races, like Black or even Indian. The difference is that the fashion industry is controlled by primarily gay men and a few women. The porn industry more directly caters to the American male’s tastes for the type of chick he finds most attractive. It is not politically correct or necessarily nice, but any production house that deviates from this will simply not sell.
I don’t dispute much of what’s asserted here, and I take it all as partly outrageous for outrageousness’ own sake, as well as for the pure joy of flinging shit in the face of Political Correctness and nicey-nicey lies generally. And cheers to all that.
Still …
Y’all aren’t familiar with SuicideGirls, or with Abby Winters, or with alt-porn generally, are you? It may not be to your taste, but it’s a thriving subset of the porn business. The Abby Winters gang — fresh and “real” (Peter probably loves the Abby Winters gals, bushy as they often are) — was the hit of the last AVN conference. Let me repeat that: At the biggest porno get-together in the world, the wobbly, irregular, and bushy real girls stole the spotlight from the glossy plastic Photoshopped blondes.
I would not use porn as an example of what straight men are biologicaly programmed to like. Modern porn is just as gay as fashion, just in a different way. Pornstars have that same plastic living barbie look and proportions that trannies have. The swollen collagen lips, the ultra-separated weird breasts, etc…like trannies they are an exaggerated parody of femininity. I notice a lot of late bloomers, ex-geeks and betas love porn star looks. My theory is that they took so long to get women in real life that most of their early exposure to women came from their sisters Barbies and from scrambled or stolen porn, and that formed their tastes in women as an adult. They intellectually learned their tastes in women from media and dolls. Compare the girls that naturals who were getting laid young prefer to the type of women that pickup artists like Mystery (late bloomer) like and you’ll see what I mean. Both may like their women young, blond and skinny, but the ex-nerds gravitate more toward the grotesque modern porn extreme aesthetic.
54 Widget
“candy, if you have any response to this, make it a picture or keep it to yourself.
Hmmm…”make it a picture or keep it to yourself”. Wow. I would never post my picture on a public site like this, not even to achieve your esteemed validation. Hard for you to imagine?
“I would not use porn as an example of what straight men are biologicaly programmed to like.”
It doesn’t matter if it’s ‘gay’ or what have you. It is what the vast bulk of the American male populace prefers. The porn look may be so rare that few men will ever have access to those women. However, they clearly prefer this look to anything else that is being marketed to them. All of other modifiers of this phenomenom are irrelevant to the certainty of this fact.
BTW, the porn stars of the 70’s had a more ‘natural’ look without heavy breast augmentation or other cosmetic procedures. With the advent of cosmetic medicine, the new ‘Barbi’ doll look has completely supplanted the more traditional look, except in a few notable porn stars, like Jenna Haze or Taylor Rain. But, in all cases like this that I can think of the cosmetically unenhanced women have absurdly beautiful facial bone structures that has offset their lack of artficial upgrades- so far. I suspect even people like Jenna H. and Taylor will likely get stuff like artificial breasts eventually. All in all, when given the choice, men in America prefer the white ‘Barbi’ doll look to fullfill their lustful fantasies.
Whether they would go for this for the long term relationship is another matter entirely and not what I am talking about in this comment.
make up is a lot more for the aging beauty than it is for the young ugly. most beauty products are aimed at the older lady who tries to stay young looking. most make up used by young women is mostly done for the young woman, rather than to attract men. chicks really love fashion, make up, hair-do’s- the works.
with that said, it’s kind of silly to say it’s nearly inconsequential. unless a woman is an attention whore for life, her aim is mostly to fall in love with ONE, read ONE, guy. if make up helps you snag him, even if it doesn’t work to quadruple the attention you receive, then that’s all that matters.
roissy, just because your numbers quadrupled or quintupled after learning the game, doesn’t mean everyone’s do. chicks dig hot guys. period. facial bone structure, body build, the works. a man who has that has to work a lot less had to develop ‘charm’. and male beauty doesn’t go away either if you slip into betamode (like when you’re delirious from oxytocin- don’t deny it!). The guy is still hot, while the simple charmer loses a lot of his manly charm.
You are a salesman for game, so I don’t expect you to admit any of this.
xoxo
Is it representative of what a vast bulk of the American male populace prefers of representative of what a vast bulk of hardcore porn fans prefer? Big difference. The look is only a recent phenomenon that came about because of the video revolution in the 90s and Vivid Video specifically. A good book called Oral History of Pornography goes into this pretty well.
Besides, look at Michael Blowhard’s comment before mine. It seems that it’s not as widespread a preference as you seem to think based on recent successes of alt-porn.
#55 Roissy
hope, my notch count quintupled in both quantity and quality when i learned game, while my looks stayed the same.
This is unrelated, but it would be interesting to read a post about when and how you started. I know you tend to avoid personal confession-style blogging — and thank God for that considering the quality of the average blog of that type — but it might make for an illuminating topic.
And the girl on the right is, unfortunately, irredeemably ugly. She might be a great person otherwise, but that’s just a sad fact of life. I feel bad for her.
Rina:
“chicks dig hot guys. period. facial bone structure, body build, the works. a man who has that has to work a lot less had to develop ‘charm’. and male beauty doesn’t go away either if you slip into betamode (like when you’re delirious from oxytocin- don’t deny it!)… You are a salesman for game, so I don’t expect you to admit any of this.”
I totally, 100% agree with you on this. Roissy is probably a better than average looking guy. Learning game simply added to his high status. I strongly believe that there are 6 traits among men that determine sexual attraction for most women:
height, race, looks (esp. facial bone structure), game, IQ and money.
Game is important but if Roissy was a short, South/ East Asian male and with an average appearance, his experience as a PUA would be significantly different than as (probably) a tall, good looking white boy.
You are so harsh roissy. It’s O.K. that you don’t want to fuck her, that is your right. It’s O.K. that you use looks as a personal criteria for determining fuckability, but, but why do you need to call her a “war pig” based on her looks? She is a human being. Who knows, she may even see this post. Personally, I try really hard to not say anything about a person I would not say to their face and that includes you.
It is what the vast bulk of the American male populace prefers.
European men have different tastes in their porn — their porn stars are less tranny-like and more elegant/refined. So it is at least partially a matter of sexual imprinting and conditioning. In this I believe makeup played a role as well, because you won’t ever see a porn star “look” that does not involve makeup.
chicks really love fashion, make up, hair-do’s- the works.
I dare say that this is evolutionarily adaptive behavior. When I was 3 years old — yes you read that correctly — until the time I was 11 or 12, I was obsessed with having lipstick, pretty dresses, sparkling jewelry, etc. I simply could not have enough of it.
Suffice it to say that the culture I grew up in (1980s China) did not have a lot of advertising. It was merely that any time I saw these things I was instinctively drawn toward them. So while chicks may really love fashion and makeup for themselves, this may be simply behavior that got men more attracted to them, and left such predisposition to “dolling up” a more successful genetic trait.
A good book called Oral History of Pornography
Heh.
Furthermore Roissy, if being a “war pig” means there is zero chance of being fucked by you, she is better off. BTW, do your numerous love interests visit your site, or do you have to hide it from them?
I dare say that this is evolutionarily adaptive behavior.
That makes sense. We know we must look pretty for the boys. But like, somehow it’s programmed really well. Women just love pretty things, too. Pretty nails (men do not care about our nail color), pretty shoes, pretty dresses, pretty bags, pretty sheets, pretty jewelry, pretty china, etc. In my mind, this is all programmed as one cohesive- PRETTY. If instead it was a reward mechanism, it would feel horrible.
Am I the only mother on this site? If so, I think that would explain my very different viewpoint at times.
candy cane,
I love the way you respond to posts multiple times. It’s fun to see how you submit a lame response then come back minutes later because you’re so proud of yourself for coming up with a real crusher.
The unfortunate thing is that it just comes off as lame and dim-witted. You’re obviously a little slow upstairs, but don’t have the patience to think it through before getting your next fix of male attention.
I’d love to have an argument in person and watch you stutter and spit all over yourself.
Not The Alamo…but Los Alomos. Where all of the scientists were/are.
And, I am not sure about Davy Crockett, but I know that the type of dancing that GW did was very structured.
yet they all have freeform elements mixed with the rigid rules.
Exactly.
Nowadays, popular dancing has basically zero structure.
And, remember, back when Disco made its way onto the scene (that is, popular with the masses), most people seemed to enjoy the “named” dances. The dances that you could actually learn the steps to.
Today, dancing is mainly a vehicle to show off your body. A heavy girl, even with a tremendous sense of rhythm, would look weird out on the dance floor of some popular night club.
Honestly, I think gays just gravitated to music and dance mainly because they are the last of the white men in the west who really felt comfortable with expressing their sexuality overtly and publicly.
Gay Men and Women, dancing, have something in common: They are displaying their bodies, and rhythm, to men.
“Women just love pretty things, too. Pretty nails (men do not care about our nail color), pretty shoes, pretty dresses, pretty bags, pretty sheets, pretty jewelry, pretty china, etc.”
This is what I am talking about when I suggest that the cosmetic industry and fashion caters more to having women look better in the eyes of other women than men. Men care a lot less about these ‘enhancers’ than women do. I think that by getting the best clothes and wearing the best make- up, women are trying to one- up other women- even though it is largely irrelevant past a certain point for men- in terms of sexual attraction.
Like every other man who has commented on this subject on this thread and unsurprisingly unlike so many of the women commenters, I agree with Roissy when he says that make-up & clothes will only help to a very limited degree in enhancing female appearance to men.
Like I also said, anything a woman does beyond that is likely to improve her self-worth & standing among other women.
75 Widget
“It’s fun to see how you submit a lame response then come back minutes later because you’re so proud of yourself for coming up with a real crusher.”
That’s exactly what you are doing! Sorry it hasn’t crushed me either. Keep trying.
I agree with T. The kid does have potential. He looks tall, physically fit, and intelligent. His face is expressive, which protects him from blandness. And he looks like a good guy. What is he, about 19 or 20? Do take him under your wing, Roissy. His fate is in balance. To save one nerd is to save the whole world.
I’d suspect that as a nerd, he may have a huge porn collection that has damaged any ability to be aroused by a normal woman, and he penis can only respond to porn-induced masturbation. There’s just no way that he could perform during sex with the female in question.
BTW, I would suspect that his timidness is from being told by girls like her to go fuck off whenever they touch her.
Actually, I’m being quite realistic. Makeup artists make a living doing this kid of thing. Economics is the hardest proof that men respond to makeup, written with the logic of monetary exchange.
Whenever I watch stuff showing the difference between women before and after makeup, it makes porn out to be a more attractive long term option when compared to real life women.
warpig
Wow, you’re really bitter today. She may be unattractive, but I see no need to call her a war pig.
in extreme cases where we are duped, there’s always the morning after to lay to rest the deception.
There’s no morning after with porn!
Pretty nails (men do not care about our nail color)
I do, but then, I have a nail fetish. The same is true for my shoe fetish as well.
Game is important but if Roissy was a short, South/ East Asian male and with an average appearance, his experience as a PUA would be significantly different than as (probably) a tall, good looking white boy.
Except that Roissy isn’t tall or good looking. He’s either one of those ugly tools that I’ve seen on the French news from France, or he’s a cro-magnon male from east of the former Iron Curtain…
Rina:
“make up is a lot more for the aging beauty than it is for the young ugly. most beauty products are aimed at the older lady who tries to stay young looking. most make up used by young women is mostly done for the young woman, rather than to attract men.”
I totally, 100% agree with this, too. You’re on a roll, Rina.
European men have different tastes in their porn — their porn stars are less tranny-like and more elegant/refined.
I’ve never liked much of the European porn. The women aren’t ugly, but they’re lacking the features that the American portn stars provide. They’re too modelesque and de sexualized without the slutty clothes, fake tits, stripper heels, and long fake nails.
the new ‘Barbi’ doll look has completely supplanted the more traditional look, except in a few notable porn stars, like Jenna Haze or Taylor Rain.
If you’re looking for the natural look, it’s generally found at so-called teen sites where the girls are “fresh” and have a youthful, cute appearance with no fake tits and very little makeup.
Whether they would go for this for the long term relationship is another matter entirely and not what I am talking about in this comment.
I would kill for such a woman in a long-term relationship. Until then, porn will fill that black hole.
Is it representative of what a vast bulk of the American male populace prefers of representative of what a vast bulk of hardcore porn fans prefer?
You may have a point. Many raincoaters (porn enthusiasts) like to point out the difference between porn made by a studio like Vivid for commoners, and stuff produced by Evil Angel for raincoaters.
candy cane
Sorry, but I’ve only been responding once to each of your posts. You’ve routinely responded to single posts multiple times.
Maybe it’s your individual personalities taking turns? Is the medication not helping?
My heart goes out to your parents. It must have been difficult for them to cope with the discovery of your mental disabilities.
Men really don’t care if Heidi Klum is wearing the latest Prada or Fendi. Her facial bone structure is exquisite.
I’m not sure if Heidi is wearing Prada in these photos, but she is not wearing makeup. I know these have bad lighting, bad angles, weird facial expressions, etc. But I’m curious of the present company’s opinion on these photos of her.
http://img128.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=52028_heidi_klum_no_makeup_01_thumb_122_25lo.jpg
http://celebritybabies.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/20/heidiklumleni121607_11_cbb.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/beauty/1/0/I/m/celebsnomakeup2.JPG
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8307/0115klummakeupte2.jpg
the makeup comes off at some point and people see what you really look like.
Very true and undisputed. But in the initial stages of attraction putting that best face forward can make or break chance for love. That initial impression is important to pull someone in to find out more (one of the principles of print/web/media design). When the masks come off, brain chemistry takes its place so that lovers view each other through rose-colored goggles.
Admittedly, I am really not the biggest advocate of makeup. I think heavy make up use messes up people’s skins, because skin are living cells and shouldn’t be exposed to too many chemicals. I haven’t worn makeup since I hit puberty because of any kind of foundation or powder feels really gross to me after a few minutes, and I have the the uncontrollable urge to lick my lips too often.
I do wear nail polish for my husband, though. David Alexander, maybe it would comfort you to know that quite a few men out there have nail and black knee-high boots fetishes.
82 Widget
That was so clever…I mean about my parents and the mental disabilities. You’re a genius.
“You’ve routinely responded to single posts multiple times.”
Wonders never cease.
women in porn are a better barometer of what turns men on than is the fashion industry because porn goes straight to the crotch of the matter — the boner doesn’t lie.
michael blowhard:
Acting classes, especially improv.
your suggestions are excellent, and in fact i have hooked up through various artsy fartsy classes. dancing is a great addition to any player’s arsenal but what do you say to those guys who have no natural rhythm? let’s face it, much of rhythm is inherited and all the struggling in dance classes won’t ever make a non-natural look natural. this inheritance probably varies by ethnicity. the reason so many more latin guys woo ladies with dance is probably because — shocker! — they possess innate rhythm and benefit more from utilizing it than, say, your average whitebread northern euro.
though the russian girls i have known were all exceptional dancers.
sara:
BTW, do your numerous love interests visit your site, or do you have to hide it from them?
you’d be surprised.
rina:
roissy, just because your numbers quadrupled or quintupled after learning the game, doesn’t mean everyone’s do.
i’m not the only testimonial.
but my numbers are what they are. there can be no reason for the rise other than my improved game.
looks clearly help a guy but since a man’s attractiveness to women is multifactorial a bad hand dealt in the looks department is not the deal-killer for a man like it would be for a woman. that is where game steps in. it gives a man a shot at attracting a higher quality woman than he normally would by relying solely on his looks.
remember the roissy formula:
guys dig beauty.
chicks dig power.
the rest is commentary.
But like, somehow it’s programmed really well. Women just love pretty things, too.
this is analogous to men’s love of beating the competition. it just feels really good to us to succeed at something not because we are thinking all along that it will help us get laid (although that’s part of it) but because we are programmed to enjoy it. but our genes are sneaky little shits and the good feelings from status whoring work to improve our chances of procreating with a high value girl.
DA:
I’d suspect that as a nerd, he may have a huge porn collection that has damaged any ability to be aroused by a normal woman, and he penis can only respond to porn-induced masturbation.
spoken like a de facto virgin.
DA, have you considered you might have serious psychological problems? what do we know about you:
you are attracted to ugly tranny-looking pornstars.
you have slept with a woman once in your whole life.
you claim to not get sexually aroused by women unless they are in clown face makeup, miniskirts, and high heels.
you’ve got a problem with older guys desiring younger girls to the point that you become apopletic at the thought of another man sexually fulfilling himself with a pretty young thing.
you insist masturbation is preferable to sex with a cute chick who doesn’t look slutty enough for your deviant tastes.
my guess is either you are lying about your stated preferences or you are suffering an extended delusional psychotic episode of sour grapes, where everything you secretly desire is not good enough for you and your fear at initiating a romance with a woman is so crippling that you have convinced yourself that masturbation feels better than sex with a reasonably attractive woman, which on its face is fucking absurd as any man who has actually had sexual intercourse will tell you.
or you may just be one fucked up weirdo, in which case what you say has very little bearing on any discussion involving sex and love.
BTW, I would suspect that his timidness is from being told by girls like her to go fuck off whenever they touch her.
his timidity is just as likely to be the cause of women telling him to fuck off as the symptom.
Wow, you’re really bitter today. She may be unattractive, but I see no need to call her a war pig.
i call it like it is. you want polite, go outside and yak it up with your neighbors.
btw, i’ve mentioned this before to you, but your sissified white knighting for women you’ve never met and who wouldn’t shed a tear if you died tomorrow isn’t going to help you get laid, so you may as well butch up and start acting like a man whose testicles descended and sprouted fuzz. there is nothing more revolting than a mewling little turdboy shitting his bloomers cause some big bad ol meany called an ugly girl a warpig.
There’s no morning after with porn!
seek help.
War Pig is as good a reason as any to why we need a voluntary eugenics movement ASAP. No kid should have to suffer with that disgusting facial structure, and I’m honestly not trying to be mean- spirited when I say this.
“…women are deceiving themselves if they think all they need to do is expertly apply makeup and guys will be all over them..”
Yeah, just be really REALLY good at performing oral sex and no one will care what you look like.
While I did not take the time to read all of these comments, I thought I’d throw my two cents in. I think this guy has alot of potential. He has a nice smile, and nice features, and it seems to me like he is just being goofy and having fun. Yes, he is a little nerdy, but he could easily transition into the nerdy hipster look and pull it off. Basically all he needs is to bulk up more and improve his clothes and haircut.
This is the type of guy that is not attractive to women when he is young, but will be in hot demand when he is in his late 20s and early 30s if he is successful and can polish his look a bit.
I had a similar experience to Shannon with regards to guys treating her better when she was a nerd– right after I graduated from college five years ago I lost (and kept off =) ) 10 lbs , which is alot for me because I am not tall. I immediately started attracting way more guys, many of them being ass holes. The guys I attracted when I was heavier definitely treated me better.
But I’m curious of the present company’s opinion on these photos of her.
i looked at those pics. i’d say an au naturel heidi still looks pretty damn good compared to the average 34 year old woman dressed to the nines. but like rina mentioned, makeup works better as an aid for older women to look younger than it does as a beauty enhancer for young women.
in the harsh outdoor lighting where these pics were taken, heidi really shows her 34 years of age and post-pregnancies.
83, HOPE
stop fucking playing that is not Heidi Klum!!!!! You got pictures of Charlize Theron in that movie Monster. You’re funny… ewwwwwwwwwwwww
Ok, the woman on the right in the jean jacket is the plainer of the two, but she’s no out-and-out pig. My gut response was that, like others have said, she either doesn’t photograph well or just flat out needs a makeover. And maybe a tight sweater just like the chick on the left.
The one on the right wouldn’t be my first choice, but I probably wouldn’t mind being stuck with her.
Just like with a lot of these found photos, I wonder if they know they’re being dissected like this. I’ll bet the guy on the extreme right is happy that he got cropped from the picture altogether.
re:Heidi Klum
Hope, there used to be a great site called: http://www.femininebeauty.info. And in it, he railed against many of these fashion models. Saying that most of them appealed more to Gay Men than Straight Men, mainly because they had no hips and often flat asses. Also, he thought that many of the women had too much Testosterone being displayed in their facial features.
The site is down now, but he had a lot of interesting photos.
One thing is for sure though, many of those fashion models do not have the hips that many Playboy models have.
The girl on the far left wearing the brown shirt looks funny
“Anyone want to assign guesstimated bhavior type ( alpha, beta, gamma? ) to all the other people in the picture? From left to right? Roissy? Readers?”
I didn’t do a left-to-right, I just did ‘um in the order they came to mind:
Ms. Queen Of The Tight Sweaters, second from the left, probably doesn’t have any trouble attracting who she wants. She probably wouldn’t tell “Bill Gates” (the name I’ve given the guy with the glasses) to fuck off, though; she’d likely let him hang around the Friend Zone for a little while. You know, when Mr. Alpha breaks her heart, she’ll come crying straight to “Bill Gates.” But she won’t give him a piece.
The lady on the right in the denim jacket can’t compete with the woman on the left, but she probably does all right. Camera just caught her on a bad night.
The two guys who actually made it into the camera frame? They remind me of the three dudes from the movie SUPERBAD. Uber nerds that might not be gettin’ it NOW, but give ‘em a few years and a few rejections and a few mistakes to learn from and their dry spell will soon be history…
i call it like it is. you want polite, go outside and yak it up with your neighbors.
There was no reason for you to be a douchebag and call this woman a warpid when she’s done nothing wrong to you except to exist in a photo. I don’t care that defending this unattractive women isn’t a free ticket to sex, but I certainly can’t let you rag on this woman in such a fashion. Obviously she isn’t attractive, but to call her a warpig just sinks to a lower level of thinking and decency.
you are attracted to ugly tranny-looking pornstars.
They have a raw sexual appearance that most women simply don’t provide. The cute teenagers that Gannon goes gaga over are simply lacking in that appeal, hence why I don’t sympathize with his views. Hell, the my friendly 18 year old female co-worker is cute and certainly not ugly, but she arouses no sexual appeal with me with her innocent look, nor do her B cups arouse any sexual interest in me.
you have slept with a woman once in your whole life.
Yup, and no other women have showed any interest in replicating the act. I don’t blame them either.
you claim to not get sexually aroused by women unless they are in clown face makeup, miniskirts, and high heels.
For me, that’s a sign of intent for sex. Otherwise, you fall under the female friends category.
you’ve got a problem with older guys desiring younger girls to the point that you become apopletic at the thought of another man sexually fulfilling himself with a pretty young thing.
I don’t see what’s so interesting about girls at that age. Hell, even the 17-20 year olds that I meet at college aren’t worth the time of day. The only reason men like young girls is because they’re naive and have no way of discerning between good men and bad men. Any decent looking older guy with a car and some disposable income and charm can attract a younger woman. It’s certainly much easier than attempting to court a woman of their own age. Since I refuse to pander and bait younger women, and I lack the financial and social status to attract women of my own age, I stay alone and refrain from bothering women.
you insist masturbation is preferable to sex with a cute chick who doesn’t look slutty enough for your deviant tastes
Porn gives the erection that these cute women are not providing. In effect, I’ve replaced women with porn, and I’d imagine that many other males have done so as well, but not as openly as I have.
My stated preferences may be slightly exaggerated, but I’d say that I only find a certain subset of women that you described as sexually attractive. Yes, there are a few women at work that I’ve found attractive, but they’re DD cup women with large asses, high heels, somewhat sexually suggestive clothing, nails, and makeup. Otherwise, either I default to the chubby white girls that I view as “cuddlebitches” but sexless, or other women who are at differing degrees of beauty, but sexually dead for me.
DA, have you considered you might have serious psychological problems?
It’s highly likely…
Once one has watched hours and hours of porn and read blog post galore about women’s disinterest in sex and attraction to alpha males, why should I waste my time embarrassing myself and revealing my own personal failures and bizzare tastes (Celine Dion music in French, railfanning, or a general lack of movie watching) in a pointless attempt to present myself as an attractive sex partner in exchange for a faked orgasm and some useless B cup boytits. I’d rather keep my money in my wallet and go loot some porn for free, and get women who effectively perform worship of the male sex organs. There is no woman in the real world who can replicate a porn star, and there is no woman in the world willing to do so for a beta male. Given the choice between awful sex and porn, you can obviously guess my answer, and my solution is considerably cheaper than your solution.
Game as presented by Roosh and yourself are for normal men with normal tastes in women with few flaws, and relative ease of socialization. For those with social phobias, aspergers, or porn addiction, then there is no solution except for porn.
I’ll also add this link to a recent blog post that was heavily edited from the original written manuscript since allegedly, the victim in question is reading my blog. Interestingly, she wants me to go out with her and her friends to drunken guido-ridden prole in Manhattan or Long Island bars to go meet women since she claims that I’m too introverted, and that I won’t meet women sitting at home in a computer. Like a paranoid maniac, I declined fearing that associating with her outside of work will lead to trouble…
seek help.
I’m uninsured…
Wow, Roissy. You fed right into giving DA an excuse to bore us with a self-indulgent pity party about how screwed up he is.
People like this save up all their emotion and grief for brief encounters like this and then try to pour it all out at inappropriate times in the vain hope that someone will reach out to them through the poison they spew.
It’s a mechanism by which you can make others prove themselves really interested in you by being willing to wade through the pessimistic sludge.
But don’t fault him, he’s periodically convinced of what he says.
I say we put together a collection in order to send David Alexander and Candy Cane on a couple of dates together. I’d love to see what happens.
None of the Suicide Girls or girls on Abby Winters look like that ugly girl in the pic. They’re all in shape, have cute or normal faces (none have ugly faces), etc. That girl in the pic looks like a freakin’ guy… like, a Randy Couture, Neanderthal skull guy.
The only way we can truly control how we look is by hitting the gym and laying off the nachos; other than that, we have to deal with the hand we were dealt.
I don’t think Lemmonex is foreign, so this just goes to show that girls who have a more masculine or guy way of thinking and behaving in general are more likely to get the truth. Less likely to heap on the self-delusion.
The handful of girls like Lemmonex who I’ve known fit this “clear-headed and tough-minded” profile too.