Take a look at these charts of ill portent:
Since about 1964, the gap between women and men in their identification with the Democrat Party and their Democrat voting patterns has been steadily increasing, with the increase especially pronounced starting in the mid 1990s. And as a friendly reminder, single women voted for Obama by a canyon-sized margin of 70%-29%.
There are a few predominant reasons for the gender gap, which I explained lucidly in this post. In short, women are voting more Democrat because the Democrat Party is the prime force for turning the government into the world’s biggest provider beta. From the time of the “sexual revolution” (which was really a “sexual devolution” back towards pre-agricultural mating norms when 80% of the women and 40% of the highest testosterone men reproduced) women have been more free to choose mating opportunities based on their gina tingles and the economic and social empowerment granted, respectively, by their pointless humanities degrees and the disintegration of traditional slut shaming mechanisms. The life of serial monogamy and alpha cock hopping has never been more attainable for the average American woman, and the result has been predictable: Women are substituting the beta males they no longer want or need for marriage with a Big Brother Daddy government to help them foot the child-raising bills that their PUA, drug running and serial killer lovers won’t.
Lest you’re tempted to blame the badboy bandits for not contributing their share, remember that women enter into relationships with these types of guys KNOWING FULL WELL they cannot be depended upon for support, and not even bothering to expect support from them. How often have you wondered why jilted women express more animus for their dumped betaboy child support and alimony paying lickspittles than for the irresponsible jerks who pump and dump them? Thanks to me, now you know why.
My gender gap theory can be refined even further, to get at the very heart of the issue, the fundamental law expressed in nearly every political trend of the past 40 years:
Roissy Maxim #66: As men are becoming ever bigger pussies and betas in their dealings with women, they are losing the leverage to shape and push women’s child-like and selfishly amoral political opinions in logical, just and long-term oriented directions.
Eventually, the world created by women will collapse, as all worlds built strictly on conceited, single-minded pragmatism utterly blind to the bigger picture must. The Democrat Party is merely the fool’s tool that fully emancipated women use to craft their poison utopia. As there are more women and joyriding alpha males than there are beta males, this collapse is inevitable, barring a violent revolution that discredits the philosophy of the voting booth.
Questions arise. Is it good for humanity if a socially enforced monogamous marriage system gives 90+% of men access to pussy and the replication of their genes? Had this been the case throughout prehistory, we modern humans might never have evolved. We are here in our present form because a majority of men (and some women) were denied, often cruelly, often tragically, a chance at reproduction. The sacrifice in blood and in psychological torment and emotional despair of countless distant ancestors was required to make us human as we now know it. We are living monuments to bloodshed and pain. Praise God and all His glorious works.
So while a mating system where 90% of men reproduce and are thus invested in the outcome of their society, and where women’s dangerously wild sexual and social impulses are partly constrained, has given us the pinnacle of civilization in the West and the East Asian lands, it may also contain the seed of its own demise. The widening gender gap is the canary in the coalmine; it is telling us that the final demise has arrived.
“canary in the coalmine”
I had never heard that until a month ago.
Isn’t it funny that once you hear an expression, you start hearing it all the time?
Anyways, it summertime and Friday.
Going to the beach to spit some Day Game.
- MPM
roissy in the hizzzouse!!!!!!!!!
One of your best yet Roissy. I’d like to seem more of this doomsday prophesying to more fully round out the re-education of beta minds. Bravo.
Two comments:
1. Is this widening gap a natural, evolutionary development and if so, should it be combated?
2. What are you thoughts on this Atlantic article about a woman who argues against marriage? http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/divorce
The woman and her friends are old and likely no longer attractive and their husbands seem like betas but both sides don’t seem to be clinging to each other.
Survival of the fittest. If your game (in whatever form) isn’t good enough that your genes survive to the next generation without a socialized pussy plan, then perhaps they shouldn’t be there. But since the vast majority (90% +) of people in the US still continue to couple, marry, and reproduce, I’m not too worried about the downfall of civilization quite yet.. Obviously the Alpha/Beta effect is way overstated.
first.
there was a lot of good stuff on the “Spot the Alpha” comments thread about this topic. this post echoes a lot of stuff that dana in particular said about it.
elsewhere, you’ve posted that evolution (genetic makeup of humans) moves faster in modern technological civilzation than it did previously. (i disagree, believing instead that culturally-induced behaviors are equally important – in fact, that’s a side effect of our huge, complex brains – to allow different kinds of software/culture to be loaded in and function. which can and does have the ability to override the hardware.)
monogamous civilization(s) is at least a few thousand years old. are you asserting that those patterns of reproduction had *no* effect on the human gene pool over that period? that our genetic makeup, and associated mating hindbrain behaviors, are frozen as if we were still scavenger primates out on the serengeti plains?
re the Democrats – i posted yesterday that it was the white male elite that pushed, allowed, and facilitated the Pandora’s box (heh) of feminism. Women may control those particular levers of social control and redistribution, but it was well-intentioned men who handed them over.
Thanks for that breaking news on 2004 voting patterns and making the point, for the 500th time, that goverment is the provider beta, dystopia, devolution, foot the bills, repeat, repeat, repeat…
I guess Roissy is in summer reruns.
Delaware beaches are at a crisp 70 this afternoon, G, hope the Left coast is warmer.
R, you think it’s bad in the post-Christian world, at least there’s a 50-50 split of boys and girls here. What about the glorious eugenic experiment of China where it’s apparently more 60-40…
Arm charm sociologists have pointed out that having a lot of young, unfulfilled, single men lying about tends to lead to bad things. Maybe, in order to stem potential rising violence, the US and Chinese governments need to have a Fembot Manhattan project to quell these unsatisfied masses.
On the whole “shaming” thing, you’d love that judge in Texas (I think his name is Ted Roe) who makes the criminals he convicts carry signs on public streets stating what their crime was as part of their probation. ie:
“I killed two people while drunk driving”
“The police found drugs in my house and my children were taken away”
and so on….there are all these Humanitarians with their panties in a bunch over it, too. That’s its so mean and humiliating….lol. However, only approximately 12% of his convicted criminals return to his court for a second offense. That’s as opposed to the norm being around 30% in other courts. He’s awesome.
Putting aside the simplistic D.C. Villager pap that Democrats = pussies while the 101st pasty fat-fuck fighting keyboard commandos here play John Wayne in their backyard bunkers and cheer on other people to go fight their wars, as well as the childlike needling of utilizing the “Democrat Party” rhetorical device…here’s what’s underlying this stuff that Roissy fails to recognize:
More white men indeed have moved in partisan ID to the conservative side of the spectrum. These conservative whites are now concentrated in the Bible Belt, essentially the poorest part of the country. These states receive a hell of a lot more federal dollars, “welfare” if you will, than the blue states where all the “pussies” live whose dollars support them. Typical de jure anti-welfare state attitudes with de facto subservience. Blame your damned brethren there.
There’s an interesting dialogue going on at the big kids’ table. Go to bed.
The attempt to make republican beliefs as alpha and democratic beliefs as beta does not always hold true. I see loads of herbs voting(or claiming to) vote republican because it is the only outlet from thier mannish wives who also vote republican as they are loudmouthed and… well manly and like to bully. Authoritarians like authoritarians. Many herbs up here in the far northeast might look like they are of different parties but really just mirror what the wife allows them.
Liberal harridan wife with too much education with the male ideal being richard simmons= democratic voting husband.
white trash harridan wife with little to no education beside TNN and the male ideal being toby keith= Republican voting husband.
There is no thought as to what political beliefs the parties may hold, even though it is as fixed as the WWf(E?) but the herb will vote as his wife tells him. The republican herbs can just fool themselves into thinking that they are in charge. All those religious groups who insist on marriage and divorce laws that castrate, seem to love “conservative ideals”
good post.
i am curious to hear what you think the answer is. do you think the republican party can serve as legitimate counter government largess? if it goes the way of the dodo, what will fill the gap?
also, what about our fiscal situation? we simply cannot continue to spend like this unless we ratchet up our tax rates to european-like levels. Will americans ever accept fifty percent tax rates?
my biggest fear is that the dems will be successful in saddling us with a whole bunch of new entitlements while lying and saying they can pay by taxing the “rich”. meanwhile, the term rich will simply become defined more and more as anyone who actually has a job.
— Questions arise. Is it good for humanity if a socially enforced monogamous marriage system gives 90+% of men access to pussy and the replication of their genes? Had this been the case throughout prehistory, we modern humans might never have evolved.
No. It’s basd for humanity to limit its male stock. Let’s look at this broad-strokes, by continent. In Europe, relatively egalitarian mating patterns allowed for the greates variation of good phenotypes — looks and inteligence, aggression and self-control, creativity and order.
In East Asia, limiting male reproduction to scholar-mandarins gave us the Obedient Nerd. In Africa, the opposite thing happened, favoring dumb thug traits. That’s obviously not the only kind of people that come from east Asia and Africa, but this is, at least in popular consciousness, the predominant respective feature of those areas.
In the end, limiting the pool of reproducing males creates a bottleneck effect.
Also — women’s-choice matriarchies favor the thug, trending human evolution toward the dumb and the ugly, for both males and females. Big fat, giant-jawled robust women
A planet Earth without good looking women? May an asteroid smash it in two.
yep. Once the bitches have voted the head of Nancy Pelosi III to the White House, the technology will be advanced enough to clone her, Bill Clinton and Obama. So, by decree, none other will be permitted to serve in government.
synthetic cloned sperm of Clinton & Obama will be dispensed randomly to women seeking a first pregnancy per the Freedom Uterus Act of 2050.
their future children will only be selected from Official NBA Sperm Banks, or obtained the old-fashioned way: after game parties
Here is one way things could go:
“What are you looking for in a husband?” Without batting an eye or pausing for thought, she answered: “Three things. One, he must be good in bed. Two, he must be a good father. Three, when we divorce, he mustn’t be bitter.”
There is more than a grain of truth in the fact that there is an increasing gender gap in society, one that very strongly favors women, at the expense of men. Or more precisely, it favors young attractive women at the expense of everyone else.
On the other hand, I think that the doomsday prophecies are a bit exaggerated and the foundations of the Western Civilization are too strong to dissolve over this matter alone. There is certainly some decadence at work and the traditional driving forces of our society – white males – are in retreat at the moment, but it’s a necessary transitional phase from a time when society was utterly dominated by (white) men to a more balanced world. At the moment we are witnessing a pendulum effect where all kinds of minorities such as black people, women, etc… are taking it out, so to speak, on those who used to run this world, but I think that the trend will reverse itself in due time.
Young men these days are somewhat unlucky to live in a time when womens’ egos have been blown entirely out of proportion to their real self worth and hence the struggles that they go through. It’s these struggles that have caused the proliferation of the PUA community and even this blog.
Also, I wouldn’t blame all the trouble in this society on the democratic party as they are the better of the two alternatives. At least they pretend to promote education and science – the two pillars on which everything stands, while the republicans can only mumble about easy substitute topics like gay marriage or abortion.
It seems like there’s a lot of evolutionary biology talk. It ignores the larger consideration that whilst the Democrats may be “beta provider” types, the welfare state quells political instability from arising via income disparity. It’s what liberalism is designed for: revolution insurance.
It’s what liberalism is designed for: revolution insurance.
I’d agree in a way, if not for the fact that liberalism were religiously devoted to Population Replacement via immigration and multiculturalism.
Leftism stokes, rather than quells, the flames of revolution.
Politics also largely boils down to self-interest when it comes to voting. What is best for a country is always arguable, but when it comes to me, I know what’s going to work well. If the Liberal government promises to subsidize my education, it benefits me as a student, so I’m going to vote for them. I’m not thinking about what effect this is having on larger trends of gender relations, and gender identity.
@The_Judge:
Young men these days are somewhat unlucky to live in a time when womens’ egos have been blown entirely out of proportion to their real self worth and hence the struggles that they go through. It’s these struggles that have caused the proliferation of the PUA community and even this blog.
I totally agree. My friend referred to this the other day as the “Cinderella Complex.” A lot of women, most women I know, sit back and expect things to come to them, especially in terms of relationships and dating.
Government mandated revolution insurance?
@PA:
Leftism stokes, rather than quells, the flames of revolution.
I think that’s more in line with the European example than the North American one. There are stronger national identities to protect in Europe. The British govt. made the mistake of not enforcing any type of national identity at all, and thus there was a huge reactionary backlash. France is not going to make the same mistake. I don’t know what the American identity is, other than inclusivity and liberalism, so really that’s what stands to be “protected” – especially from ultra socially conservative immigrants who threaten this balance. I don’t have an issue with immigration when what follows is an actual adaptation to the new host country.
subsidize my education
Subsadized student loans and grants are responsible for the stratospheric tuitions. Colleges set whatever prices they like because it will be paid for via loans.
Without student loans, tuition would cost around $20 per credit hour (or whatever students/parents are willing to pay) and you’d graduate without debt.
S.-
That’s spot-on correct! No offense, alphas, but do you really want to live in a world where more than half of your neighbors are hungry, pissed, and desperate? Careful what you wish for cuz those people are going to be there whether you approve of not. It’s time to start making social realities part of you fantasy. The welfare state is steam control.
anonymous, left wingers make that charge a lot (re: Right wing states receive more welfare-type $$ than left wing)but do you have proof?
And also, remember that the state divide isn’t really accurate; the red-blue-purple map is more demonstrative. So if you indeed show that “red” areas are receiving welfare $$ etc., you have a point.
However, the counter to that is that it is blue areas—democratic counties and cities—that receive the most welfare $$, etc. That makes much more sense, considering the knee-jerk reactions of blacks to vote democrats, the overwhelming majority of whom subsist on government $$, and that cities (which largely vote democrat) receive a lot more public $$ than non-cities.
Quite frankly, the gut take hypothesis is that democrats get $$, not republicans. I would like to see your proof otherwise, however.
@PA
Subsadized student loans and grants are responsible for the stratospheric tuitions.
It sounds like it would happen, but in Quebec students pay about $1 700/year for tuition, and the provincial government compensates the remaining $3 300 or so. Those have been the rough figures for a while.
— I don’t know what the American identity is, other than inclusivity and liberalism
That’s not the American identity. American identity is its pre-1965 demographics: 85% white (mostly anglo-saxon), 12% black, 3% “other,” everybody speaks English, and almost everybody is Chrisitan.
Given that, the American identity includes a distrust for big government, respect for self-reliance and individualism, combined with informal community ties and regional differnces in local culture.
— France is not going to make the same mistake.
None of Sarkozy’s phoney bluster is going to make a difference as long as non-French people keep moving to France. It’s the majority ethnic stock that determines a nations’ culture, not its government decrees.
“On the other hand, I think that the doomsday prophecies are a bit exaggerated and the foundations of the Western Civilization are too strong to dissolve over this matter alone.”
I hate to tell you, but the above mentioned subject isn’t the only matter…
“I don’t have an issue with immigration when what follows is an actual adaptation to the new host country.”
I can tell you how well that’s working out. There is a population group that has been in america for 100’s of years and are still unable to act normally:
http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html
Sarkozy is of Hungarian descent himself.
PA, America has the advantage of being the type of country used to immigrants assimilating. Immigrants here because their home governments failed in some manner to serve them adequately (whether oppression, poverty, famine, disease, war—their homeland was bad); thus many immigrants are pre-selected to distrust government more so than the average human.
Of course, 2-5 generations later, the immigrant mentality is lost, and they become SWPLers, worshipping big gov.
This may explain why many black immigrants inherently are somewhat right wing—Colin Powell is the son of immigrants, not a descendent of American slave.
Of course, this isn’t a perfect match for all cases.
Interesting piece.
Roissy, I wonder how you could explain other countries’ avoidance (or at least, slowing down) of the same problem.
For instance, i’m Canadian. Canada is, in most matters, more Liberal then our Southern neighbours-for instance, the Conservative (right-wing) party here is much closer to the center then Republicans, due to the public’s views on certain matters being non-arguable (Health Care).
I know you’ve been up here before (I remember you enjoying a trip to Toronto a while ago). Shouldn’t a more liberal country like ours be decaying at a faster rate?
I hope no one takes this as troll bait. I’m honestly curious.
The Democrat Party is merely the fool’s tool that fully emancipated women use to craft their poison utopia.
Keeping in mind the Dems get something out of it, too — votes, leading to power, leading to more money to hand out to bribe people to vote for them, leading to more votes, and so on.
Quebec has a tuition fee freeze, plus the money the government gives is a lot less. American government guarantees you upwards of $18,500 in loans regardless of what your college actually costs. Plus it doesn’t have a cap on what colleges can charge. Thus the difference in the two systems.
The colleges in Quebec are fighting this and may be getting their way. Many in Quebec fear this will lead to American University style tuitions:
http://campaigns.csu.qc.ca/index.php?module=pagesetter&func=viewpub&tid=3&pid=217
That’s spot-on correct! No offense, alphas, but do you really want to live in a world where more than half of your neighbors are hungry, pissed, and desperate? Careful what you wish for cuz those people are going to be there whether you approve of not. It’s time to start making social realities part of you fantasy. The welfare state is steam control.
Half of my neighbors receive welfare? If you modify your statement to:
‘Do you really want to live in a world where the laziest and stupidest 10% of my neighbors are hungry and pissed?’
Absolutely I do. The hunger in their bellies will give them some incentive to get a job. Or they’ll die and the species will grow stronger.
“re the Democrats – i posted yesterday that it was the white male elite that pushed, allowed, and facilitated the Pandora’s box (heh) of feminism. Women may control those particular levers of social control and redistribution, but it was well-intentioned men who handed them over.”
True.But you’re leaving something out,Maurice.It is this:elite males proffered sexual license to common females,but those very females sure didnt hesitate to grasp the offering.
This,I believe,is the most salient detail that needs to be pondered,and pondered well,in order to get a firm grasp on current affairs.
A point that must be made is: before the sexual revolution and in areas of the world now that follow traditional marriage customs with a focus on high family values, there was/is segregation between men and women to one degree or another.
That means for men who want to “play the field” … there is/was no field to play. In cultures that value marriage and family, yes, divorce is minimal to nil, however, people tend to marry very young (compared to the post-modern West) and there is no meat market of single, horny, available women.
Of course affairs have existed since long, and where there’s a will, there is a way, even in those cultures, but by and large, there was/is no access to single men and women 24/7 like there is now here in the post-modern West.
Which is perferrable to men? A life long marriage with a wife who more than likely will not cheat on you, divorce you and sue you for alimony/child support OR having access to a multitude of single women whom you MIGHT be able to bed if you can get your game together?
“The welfare state is steam control.”
In case you haven’t noticed, we can’t afford it anymore. Besides, before welfare, in say 1900, life in America was pretty peaceful. Not much starvation, block wars or the crime we have now. Try another argument.
We’re going to merge with computers way before this mating disaster runs it’s course.
Read Ray Kurzweil, boys –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Spiritual_Machines
Everyone will be 10 there and as alpha as possible.
In a short run 15-20 years from now (as was duly noted on this blog before) virtual/artificial sex will completely redesign the landscape.
Roissy:
the economic and social empowerment granted, respectively, by their pointless humanities degrees and the disintegration of traditional slut shaming mechanisms.
Hmmm. If those humanities degrees were really so pointless, how have they contributed to economic and social empowerment?
Your post, in general, is excellent. But this contradiction will not be denied.
“I know you’ve been up here before (I remember you enjoying a trip to Toronto a while ago). Shouldn’t a more liberal country like ours be decaying at a faster rate?”
The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Besides, you don’t have the degenerate population the US has.
Arrakis, a few things:
1. not to attack Canada’s military (which is strong and very involved) but the U.S. has been, since the Cold War, far and away the largest spender on military and military techonology. During the cold war and up to today, the U.S. military was the big dog keeping the Eastern Bloc (and now rogue nations and terrorism) at bay. this allowed western countries to spend that excess money that would have gone to building up the military if there were no check on the Russians on social programs, a la free medical aid, etc.
2. other countries which instituted socialized medicine (such as Canada) have benefitted from the free research lab that is the U.S., which gives out the majority of medical innovations due to its capitalized view of medicine. One the US innovates, socialized medicine countries merely extract the cream drugs and procedures.
Should the US move to socialized medicine, innovation would drop substantially,forcing socialized countries to actually stop much of their socialized medicine in favor of innovation, or else a new super power would ahve to start innovating like crazy.
My point: Liberalized countries have long leaned on US conservative policies in the marketplace–military and medical, among others. However, should the US move to liberalization, these countries wille xperience rapid decay—much like a Williamsburg hippie would rapidly become swallowed in a wasteland of violence should all those “dumb rednecks” and “corporate pigs” in the military and making anti-depressents respectively suddenly quit their jobs.
@Joe:
I think that has to do as well with the weakening of nationalist politics in Quebec, or at least nationalist politics in Quebec not getting taken seriously federally. The only reason the Quebecois government can afford to heavily subsidize university is because they blackmail the federal government in giving them extra dollars.
I live in Ontario and tuition is still relatively cheap compared to the States, which is astronomically high. American style tuitions would never fly in Canada, for a multitude of reasons, mainly our deference for big government and the amount of tax we pay.
Okay, seriously…for any of you that live in the United States, our taxes range from 1%-2% being taken out by the State/Federal government for Welfare. That’s it.
It’s not worth being pissed about in terms of tax dollars because as a taxpayer in the United States you are almost guaranteed that your taxes are going to go to something retarded no matter what, so suck it up sally-girls!!
S.,
“Politics also largely boils down to self-interest when it comes to voting.”
That’s just plain wrong. It’s been debunked many many times. “The Myth of the Rational Voter” by Bryan Caplan is a decent intro to the topic. There are many other books/studies as well on this topic.
Lurker –
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html
A city-county level analysis along the lines of the purple map would be more apt, I agree. Not sure if any exists. Bottom line, when rural conservative whites in relatively low-population and low-population density states receive off the chart welfare in form of ag subsidies, MedicAid (a conservative-era result) and other federal largesse, and when one Wyoman equals 70 Californians you know we never have and never will live in a free-market Randian utopia.
And you can’t pin that one on the “pussies”.
This notion of welfare as revolution insurance is nonsense. If that was true then why are the places that receive welfare — in the form of cash handouts, public housing, etc. — the very places where we find the most social discontent? (think: LA riots).
The biggest public policy success of the last 15 years was cutting welfare.
By expanding government you are also expanding the politicization of society, which creates new avenues for discontent and divisions. Indeed, one of the best arguments for cutting government is so that politics will play a less divisive role. This is why politics is such a dividing line in society today — because so much is at stake in who controls Washington.
Cut government. Return the power to the people.
—Hmmm. If those humanities degrees were really so pointless, how have they contributed to economic and social empowerment?—
The people that issue them and value them are in power and have been for decades.
Lurker:
What you say is-well, i’m trying to look for a positive way to spin it, but what it really is is a red herring.
I never challenged America’s integrity, innovation, or importance. I challenged Roissy’s assertion that a country becoming more liberal leads to it’s evisceration.
@ .38:
Besides, you don’t have the degenerate population the US has.
I agree. U.S. race politics is f’ed up. It was really jarring for me to see the stark racial-class divide in places like Atlanta., Newark, and D.C.
@lurker:
I think you have it. We rely on the U.S. for a lot, especially ideas. When there was a ban on stem cell research in the U.S., a lot of it was going on in Toronto, so much so that it became an international hub for stem cell research. Now that this market has freed up in the States, watch us suffer for it, and a shift of research and resources quickly take place.
@C:
It also depends on the larger social infrastructure. When you have a welfare state, many, many services are public. When you merely receive welfare cheques, and your surrounding environment is heavily capitalist, I don’t think you’re able to pay for substantial health care, education, etc. It’s just enough money to make ends meet.
Berlin ’sex academy’ offers tips for visitors
“So far we’ve had just as many women in here as men [...] Women coming in tend to have fewer inhibitions while the men tend to be a bit more embarassed.”
http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSTRE56952420090710?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews
de Tocqueville writes: “2. What are you thoughts on this Atlantic article about a woman who argues against marriage? http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200907/divorce
The woman and her friends are old and likely no longer attractive and their husbands seem like betas but both sides don’t seem to be clinging to each other.”
Good call on the article. It (intentionally and unintentionally) validates many Roissy observations:
Excerpts:
“Ellen had originally picked Ron because she was tired of all the bad boys, and Ron was settle-down husband material.”
“[the author has an] avowed childhood desire to see my father explode into flames”
“Today, the most common type of marriage is the Companionate Marriage, in which husband and wife each have a career, and they co-parent and co-housekeep according to gender-free norms they negotiate. ”
“That said, it’s clear that females are dissatisfied—more and more, divorce seems to be initiated by women. If marriage is the Old World and what lies beyond is the New World, it’s the apparently stable men (comfortable alone in their postfeminist den with their Cook’s Illustrated and their porn) who are Old Worlders, and the Girls’ Night Out, questionnaire-completing women who are the questing New Worlders. They most embody what Tocqueville described as America’s “restless temper,” or l’inquiétude du caractère. (Interestingly, according to EnlightenNext magazine, some northern European women are reportedly eschewing their progressive northern European male counterparts and dating Muslims, who are more like “real men.”)”
lurker,
how about you show some proof yourself?
S, there was no “ban” on stem cell research, FYI–despite what the media painted, claiming Bush was some sort of luddite.
What there was a ban on was taking stem cells from human embryos via their destruction–which many pro-lifers (myself included) viewed as murder. Stem cells already pulled/cloned/gotten from non-embryonic sources (which is a substantial amount) were always fair game for research.
Meh. Less philosophizing, more field reports!
Roissy,
Interesting and incisive as usual.
The most important and unpredictable variable in all of this is technology, of course.
Technology has progressed while civilization has devolved, and the technological progress is the only thing that’s made the devolution and regress bearable, sustainable, etc.
But they’ve also been feeding each other as well of course, as tech progress makes civ. devolution possible, and civ. devolution makes tech progress necessary. So they’re linked very closely.
I suppose it’s like a race to the bottom sort of deal. Can tech progress keep up with/outpace civ. devolution in order to sustain civilized life, or will civ. devolution be so rapid that it destroys the conditions in which tech progress/science is possible?
Or will tech progress accelerate to the point that bio engineering/reproductive/genetic manipulation is possible? resulting in a society which, while dystopic in many ways in our eyes, nonetheless maintains some degree of order, civilization rather than the kind of neo-primitivism much of civ. seems hurtling towards currently.
More cudos to lurker for his point #2.
There has never been any real experience in socialized medicine, because the European, Canadian, etc. programs have been propped up by American R&D expenditures.
Lance, first, are you going to dispute that blacks do not vote en masse for democrats, or that blacks are largely poor in this country?
“It’s just enough money to make ends meet.”
That’s what welfare used to be (and temporarily too) before it became a way of life.
Lurker,
I’d like to see the state by state breakdown too. I think it’ll be very interesting to read.
However, I’d like to take you to task w/your “kneejerk” remarks wrt Black folks’ support for the Dems. Simply put they do for two very important reasons-because the Dems lookout for what Blacks feel are their interests, and because the GOP hasn’t shown any interest in trying to get the Black Vote.
Now, hey, the latter part of the above statement may not be a bad thing, depending on where you sit. But like I told SmartyJones earlier this morning wrt Thomas Sowell, you don’t sell anything by simply saying its the best. Anyone w/any knowledge of sales will laugh right in your face if you do.
You make a sale and keep a customer because you’ve forged a relationship that in many ways, has very little to do w/the actual product. Simply put, the GOP hasn’t shown itself all that interested in forging a relationship w/Blacks enmasse, relying on its supporters to instead basicaly berate Blacks into supporting them w/stuff like “its better!” and so on. It reminds me of the guy who’s pissed that he can’t pickup chicks merely by the fact that he’s nice and has a good job-yea, so? We all know that he needs more than that.
Why should it be any different here?
O
@lurker:
Thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected.
Arrakis, what I’m saying is that liberalized countries rely ont he US, thus stop-gapping their losses via liberalism. But the heavy reliance is key.
Also, considering you have a council which creates “hate speech” punishments for anyone attacking anythign left-of-center, I think Canada is well on tis way to 1984-esque dictatorship.
Stan B
So women got what they wanted are are still unhappy?! Say it ain’t so!
@ .38:
I don’t understand why welfare is a lifestyle for many (genuinely). Can anyone tell me what a minum-wage income is in the U.S.? Or how much welfare amounts to annually?
Yeah, the Democrats opposed gay marriage and are for school choice (most blacks are too). No wonder why blacks keep voting Democratic. Actually the Dems deliver whitey’s money and AA, hence the votes. The End
Blame it on Anglo culture.
How do you expect a culture that aligns itself with the British way not to fall into betatude? English civility is basically betatude held in high esteem. Look at Australia, New Zealand, US, England… they are all countries where men are (either already or becoming) extremely beta. Then look at Germany, France, Italy, etc. These countries that haven’t been directly influenced (socially) in the same way that US/Aus/NZ, and as a result the relationship between man and woman maintains the traditional male-female personality/power dynamic.
lurker,
i’m not necessarily disputing either; just asking for proof in your claim that the “overwhelming majority” of blacks are on public assistance.
“We’re going to merge with computers way before this mating disaster runs it’s course.
Read Ray Kurzweil, boys –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Spiritual_Machines
Everyone will be 10 there and as alpha as possible.
In a short run 15-20 years from now (as was duly noted on this blog before) virtual/artificial sex will completely redesign the landscape.”
Kurzweil is very compelling with his arguments. Recently I read another one of his books “Singularity is Near”, which basically deals with the same subject. I think that his outlook of completely merging with machines within the next few decades is a little bit optimistic, but I can’t deny the power of his numerous arguments. Basically he outlines how scientific progress could skyrocket, but he doesn’t seem put enough consideration in the fact that the advancement of knowledge is often encumbered by political events and various social movements.
In it’s pure state, however, his theories are a wonder to behold and many ideas gave me tons to think about. The basic premise is that within the next few decades we will be able to merge completely with our technology and become free of the constraints of our physical bodies. At that point we will be able to conduct scientific research fueled by untold computational powers coupled with the human intuition, which we are supposed to retain (otherwise it wouldn’t be a successful merger). The end result will be a period of almost instantaneous and almost infinite advancement in our knowledge. We will create a hive mind of sorts and eventually, in all likelihood, lose the need for individuality and focus on constant expansion of out computational power by transforming all matter in the universe into the most densely packed computational units.
That may not sound so great, but as Ozornik mentioned, we are due for a period when we will be able to simulate sexual experience with absolute clarity either through the use of perfect sex bots or, maybe even more likely, direct brain stimulus such that external, uncertain sexual success will become irrelevant.
It’s certainly worth living a few more decades to see how it all pans out.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for a perfect replica of an 18 year old Hayden Panettiere.
Anybody see any gaps in this gender?
@S.
the welfare lifestyle can not be calculted in $$$ because it is dolled out in free services: free school lunches and breakfasts, free housing, free WIC, food stamps, free transportation vouchers, free park district passes to the pool, free emergency and chronic health care. The only items paid for with Welfare cash is Cheetos, lottery tickets, alcohol, and cigarettes.
S–
Except in the case of white men, particularly Anglo white men.
That’s how women got the vote in the first place in Britain and American around 1920 in each.
Before 1970’s white women’s liberalism also tended to be more of the altruistic, both genders white self sacrificing kind. Then affirmative action for women was pushed though as a feminist tag along to AA for blacks (that’s exactly how it happened and how the arguments for it were structure, and accepted by the media), and the Roe decision was handed down by the Supremes, but threatened politically. The Domocrats were the party of feminists. Other feminist legislation and agitation gathered strength, including sexual harrassment, domestic violence (with really hair trigger thresholds and presumption of guilt), and divorce and family law changes.
So increasingly white women’s participation in left leaning politics became self serving as much or more than altruistic.
Hence the gender gap.
Berlin ’sex academy’ offers tips for visitors
“So far we’ve had just as many women in here as men [...] Women coming in tend to have fewer inhibitions while the men tend to be a bit more embarassed.”
>>>>>>>
Appearantly there is a big sex tourism market in Jamaica and other surrounding Carribbean Islands. “Rent-a-Rasta” catering to foreign female clientele jonesing to get their mandingo on.
Videos here:
Rent-a-Rasta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4OFkjVNg2w
and here:
Sex Trips for Girls/Holiday Boy Toys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0I6a39xAgw&feature=fvw
AND THE BEST YET!!!
Rent-a-Dread (this dude is really full of himself but I could see his attitude working on a lot of women)
anonymous:
“Bottom line, when rural conservative whites in relatively low-population and low-population density states receive off the chart welfare in form”
—this is not shown by your chart.
“of ag subsidies, MedicAid (a conservative-era result) and other federal largesse, and when one Wyoman equals 70 Californians you know we never have and never will live in a free-market Randian utopia.”
—Like I said, the red-blue-purple separation is much more apt; a passing glance some of the states that receive large amount of federal aid (Hawaii) are always blue, while others (Louisiana) have or have had large, very poor black populations that consistently voted democrat (Jindal is the frist R governor in about, what 20-30 years? And that is after the mass migration of black democrats from N.O. following Katrina).
Many of the so-called “red” states have pockets of black dominance, espcially southern states. Northern cities with heavy black populations also get a large share of federla money—NYC is in fiscal trouble if it doesn’t get its daily does of terrorism, welfare, and housing money.
“And you can’t pin that one on the “pussies”.”
—actually, we can. Since federal largesse is dictated by left-wing voting priorities, it is indeed pussy democrats extorting money for the liberal demographics.
Of course, if a bill is set in stone to pass, then it behooves many a congressman to get his people the biggest piece of the pie. At that point, it s a scramble. Once the egg is broken, get as much yoke as you can.
I have never decried Robery Byrd or Ted Kennedy with their success in directing funds towards their state (notably, the huge debacle that was the Big Dig in Boston)—more, I loathe the fact that they committed to large wealth redistribution before hand. Once committed, hwoever, it was their duty to their constituents to grab the pie pieces.
So yes, the pussies are to blame for demanding welath redistribution.
Obs–
Correct as always. As a former GOP party hack myself, I would add that Lee Atwater’s goal of 20% of the black vote still remains elusive twenty years later.
Today we have a black GOP national chairman, but he is too cerebral and not combative enough (I would have preferred Ken Blackwell, who also ran for the post in January).
What is needed is some investment in ghetto areas: led by the equivalent of political missionaries. We need to run some charismatic community leaders who can raise issues like same sex marriage and the failure of the educational blob. And we need to spend the money in these areas on campaigns, knowing full well that the effort will take time and have no guarantee of success.
I am not optimistic about the GOP’s chances in minority communities. All I am saying is that these things are NECESSARY, but not sufficient conditions for closing the gap.
Lance, fi the majority of blacks are poor, and they vote democrat, which is for assistance of the poor, then it isn’t a leap to assume that the majority of blacks receive public $$.
Please; if my first two points are valid, my third naturally flows.
We would not be where we are as an animal without a form of enforced monogamy.
To go from the ape of the jungle to the world spawning ape that we are now required cooperation of the males to become the hunting ape that in turn became the civilization ape.
Without cooperation, we would not have left the jungle and evolved into humans. To hunt, to get meat that is necessary for us to grow our brains, we needed to hunt in packs.
To hunt in packs, you needed the betas to have a vested interested in the group.
That interest is sex and children. We evolved into human beings in that way.
The fact that there is an evolutionary advantage to cheating, does not undermine the competing motivation.
Without it, civilization dies. More an more men are abandoning civilization, DA is just the vanguard, or the pope of that movement.
It cannot be fixed now, we are headed for a dark age. So be it.
The_Judge
but he doesn’t seem put enough consideration in the fact that the advancement of knowledge is often encumbered by political events and various social movements.
I’ve read Singularity as well and seen Kurzweil speak at several events.
He has a couple charts in his book addressing your very point. The exponential graphs of computing power – which go back before the first World War into (I believe) the 19th century) – show an almost perfectly smooth line throughout two world wars, depressions and revolutions.
Anglo culture, in particular Calvanism and puritanism and it’s pedestaling of women is to blame. Feminism is merely a different name for the same Puritan beliefs that men are morally corrupt and their will is strong, and women are morally strong, but their will is weak.
Doug,
From the time suffrage passed to the present, the government has continued to expand and become more tyranical. From the very beginning. It has just continued.
The gender gap in voting has existed from the beginning and immediately upon suffrage, the governments voting patterns became more liberal.
—”I don’t understand why welfare is a lifestyle for many (genuinely). Can anyone tell me what a minum-wage income is in the U.S.? Or how much welfare amounts to annually?”—
There is a federal minimum wage. States also can set one. Municipalities can also institute a living wage law as well.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm
Minimum wage will take you much farther in say Indiana than NYC.
Welfare spending is in the billions. Lots of billions.
I’d like to see the state by state breakdown too. I think it’ll be very interesting to read. ~Obsidian
Lets look at Today’s newspaper:
USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-07-08-redblue_N.htm
The reports show the 872 counties that supported Obama received about $69 per person, on average. The 2,234 that supported McCain received about $34.
That’s over double!
Capitalism works better than socialism any day of the week.
I’d bet money McDonalds provides more tasty meals to “poor” people every day than welfare.
I can get my prescriptions filled at WalMart for $4. How much would it cost me through a socialist national health care system?
And if you argue that poor people get fat because they eat too much junk food then stop. Think. You’re saying poor people get too much food under capitalism.
You can eat heatlhy. At the grocery store I can buy a cantelope for $1, packages of lean ground pork for $1.75.
It seems to me poor people in a capitalist society do better than poor people in any socialist country.
“Besides, before welfare, in say 1900, life in America was pretty peaceful. Not much starvation, block wars or the crime we have now.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
That’s because lynching was not considered a crime.
Jack Straw,
technology always makes as many problems as it solves. It will not save civilization, but merely be looked back upon as a golden age.
It has never stopped the collapse of civilization in history. Most that collapse from within are the most technologically advanced for their time.
nonymous, and let’s not forget that states themselves—liberal ones more than conservative ones—provide state welfare for the poor.
And what states are nearly bankrupt/are bankrupt today?
ones enacting liberal social welfare policies: New Jersey, NEw York, CA.
Actually, more recent evolutionary anthropology suggests that polygamy is relatively new to the species — something that came about during the agricultural revolution 11000 years ago. Prior to that, human tribes were pair bonded –> there was not enough social stratification among the males to support widespread polygamy. The pair bonds were cheated on, of course — that wiring, for men and women, runs deep. And of course women would still strive to make the best pair bond they could. But the society as a whole was more egalitarian, which prevented pussy monopolies from forming.
The pussy monopolization programme came along with agriculture, which introduced substantial stratification, and generated the kind of top-heavy wealth that supports polygamy.
Yes, far fewer men reproduced historically, but anthropologists don’t think that polygamy was the main reason. Rather, men are more subject to disease, and were much more likely to die die to (1) wars with other tribes, (2) death during hunts or (3) violence with other men in the tribe, various disputes resolved by violence and so on.
A key recent resource for this is “Before the Dawn” by Nicholas Wade.
Throwing pair bonding into the wind won’t work for the civilization. I think Roissy knows that.
http://people-press.org/report/?pageid=1549
Curiously, Only 6% of Scientists identify as Republicans.
@sestamibi/obs- the Jack Kemp strain in the GOP is really its only appeal to minorities. the other parts of the coalition are more or less open in their hostility to minorities/immigrants, etc.
the GOP has earned, and will get, many years in the political wilderness. in that time, they’ll learn to move toward the center to get votes and get back into power, as the Dems did in their DLC phase.
I’m reading the comments section on the youtube Rent-a-Dread video:
One comment:
“”Sex tourism by white, middle class, middle aged women is an open secret in Europe (Scandanavian and German women are absolutely notorious for travelling for this) and also North America (particularly Canadian women). Of course they would never admit to being what they are; namely sex tourists. They hide behind the “no money changed hands” lie. Maybe not directly, but they paid for the meals, accomodation, nights out etc,etc. An anti sex tourist campaign against these white women is called for.”"
Another commenter says African American women are doing it to.
The difference I see between this particular type of sex tourism and the one in Thailand is that the women are looking for adult men, not children. Child sex slavery is huge in Thailand. I’m not hearing that the female sex tourists are leaving Europe and North America/Canada so that they can have sex with little boys.
Besides, these Island men are obviously enjoying themselves by the looks of it in these videos.
“I’ve read Singularity as well and seen Kurzweil speak at several events.
He has a couple charts in his book addressing your very point. The exponential graphs of computing power – which go back before the first World War into (I believe) the 19th century) – show an almost perfectly smooth line throughout two world wars, depressions and revolutions.”
I would actually expect that the world wars did not slow down the rise of computational power because military conflicts are, ironically, great boosters of technological advancements since the opposing sides are trying to outdo each other.
I was thinking more of the events such as the rise of radical religious movements, which is happening in the US to an extent with the advent of evangelical christians. Movements like that call upon society to denounce science and when they gain traction they could, for example, be powerful enough to force the government to cut down on scientific spending. Cutting edge science requires the best and the brightest educated in an unbiased and effective way. That’s more tenuous of a proposition than many of us would like to think.
“More white men indeed have moved in partisan ID to the conservative side of the spectrum. These conservative whites are now concentrated in the Bible Belt, essentially the poorest part of the country. These states receive a hell of a lot more federal dollars, “welfare” if you will, than the blue states where all the “pussies” live whose dollars support them. Typical de jure anti-welfare state attitudes with de facto subservience. Blame your damned brethren there.”
First, there are a lot of retirees moving to the Bible Belt because the cost-of-living is lower. They are taking their social security checks with them. As you know, social security is money owed to people who were forced by the government to save for retirement. It is not “federal money.”
Second, the Bible Belt has proportionately more blacks than any other part of the country. Those are the people receiving all of the Federal dollars.
The Republican white guys who are not retirees get nothing from the gravy train.
“Which is perferrable to men? A life long marriage with a wife who more than likely will not cheat on you, divorce you and sue you for alimony/child support OR having access to a multitude of single women whom you MIGHT be able to bed if you can get your game together?”
@Auntyji –
The former of course, because it ensures most men of mates. The latter option will always have a significant number of men who can’t “get their game together” for various reasons –> the first option would still give them mates.
I was thinking more of the events such as the rise of radical religious movements, which is happening in the US to an extent with the advent of evangelical christians. Movements like that call upon society to denounce science and when they gain traction they could, for example, be powerful enough to force the government to cut down on scientific spending. Cutting edge science requires the best and the brightest educated in an unbiased and effective way. That’s more tenuous of a proposition than many of us would like to think.
I think the odds of this happening are getting smaller every day. Science is truly global and, apart from the most cutting edge military stuff, is shared globally. Any slowdown in technological progress in America would be met my an increase in China, or India, or Brazil, or whoever else constructed a society amiable to scientific progress.
Scientific minds and investment capital will always flow to where they’re best rewarded.
The only thing that can stop the singularity – in my view – is either nuclear war or some physical limit in the universe that we don’t understand or see (similar to Vinge’s Zones of Thought in A Fire Upon the Deep)
JS, false nomer.
What percentage of scientists work in universities, where being a conservatvie is a career liability? I’m reminded of the first female PhD in—meterology I believe—who, following retirement “came out” as a partial global warming skeptic.
Her reason for being “closeted?” It was too damaging to her career to come out while practicing. She would have been denied grants left and right.
You’d find the same percentage of Hollywood actors claiming republicanism. Why? The industry is overwhelmingly and virulently democrat/liberal. To claim conservative/center-type values is a death knell, especially ina volatile industry like acting.
Only a few brave souls dare claim the R in these industries, and make many ideological compromises. How many R actors are against gay marriage? Why? BECAUSE THE INDUSTRY IS RIFE WITH GAYS. It would be like playing in the NBA and cracking black jokes; good luck finding a team that wants you.
“Which is perferrable to men? A life long marriage with a wife who more than likely will not cheat on you, divorce you and sue you for alimony/child support OR having access to a multitude of single women whom you MIGHT be able to bed if you can get your game together?”
Also, the bolded part is not ‘more than likely’. The odds of divorce and/or cuckoldry is somewhere in the 40% to 60% band.
lurker,
you’re wrong. most black are not poor, but middles class. granted that’s probably skewed toward lower middle class, but still people who work and don’t live off the government.
speaking of the black underclass, there is an opportunity to say something about what the future holds for the rest of america. in the popular imagination there’s this idea that every black guy has multiple baby-mamas. this doesn’t really make a lot of sense. it’s more likely that a small percentage of black alphas are doing most of the fathering, while others are being cuckolded or choose to be with woman who have been pumped and dumped by alphas.
what’s the motivation for those men? do they think they are the fathers in most cases or is this their only alternative when it comes to seeking mates?
Nova,
Excellent points, and let me just add: w/a growing cohort of Right Enders on the Cognitive Bell Curve-living longer, no married, not getting laid because they fundamentally lack the “soft skills” that a Feminized World demands, we are faced w/a really hard question:
What do we do w/the (High IQ) Menz?
Suggestions?
O
Js, the equivalent in R circles would be being an evangelical christian in favor of abortion and gay marriage, or an oil executive being in favor of cap-and-trade and green investment by big gov. Good luck not being shunned by the local boys in those circles.
My ex just asked me again last night to marry him (even though we’re broken up obviously) and he said “I know you don’t want to sleep with the same person for the rest of your life, so it’s fine if you have boyfriends….I know that’s the only way you’d marry me.”
It’s one thing to be a helpful friend, but it’s another to involve one’s self in such an arrangement and have the full responsibilities of being a parent and spouse. Mind you, if that’s what makes them happy, then my judgement is useless…
Which is perferrable to men?
The latter since women age and become useless for sex while the male sex drive keeps functioning…
Nah, Maurice. The Jack Kemp wing of the GOP is why the party is a joke. Kemp was a pro-welfare, pro-immigration, borderline Democrat. We saw the same thing with McCain’s nomination.
The GOP’s only realistic shot at success lies in having strong, smart, charismatic, unapologetically non-liberal, media-savvy hardcore right wing candidates.
Think Buchanan/Tancredo/Santorum, but without a loser stench. I’m not calling these guys losers, but they don’t have that rare quality that lets them transcend and overcome media demonization. Reagan, a right winger for his time, had that.
The establishment media momentarily saw a spectre of this in Sarah Palin, which is why they swarmed to destroy her.
In any case, if the GOP is ever to represent America’s ideals of Christian values and anglo-saxon liberties, they best shut the immigration door before they become demographically irrelevant.
“Also, the bolded part is not ‘more than likely’. The odds of divorce and/or cuckoldry is somewhere in the 40% to 60% band.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, seeking_alpha, I’m talking about in the truly traditional cultures where men and women are segregated. Divorce and cuckoldry are not common.
Roissy: Sometimes I’ve wondered if you’re a social scientist by training, since you often think like one. I’m in a hurry right now so I gotta post this link without comment
http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~rpande/papers/qje_all.pdf
How about the “alimony-gap”? Even though female-spouses now outearn their male-spouses in 36% of families, women still only pay 4% of the alimony nationwide. We should do something to narrow this alimony gap so that more Kate Walshes are paying more alimony!
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/till_death_do_us_pay
“…most black are not poor, but middles class. granted that’s probably skewed toward lower middle class, but still people who work and don’t live off the government.”
Tons of these people who don’t “live off the gov’t” and uh, “work” have gov’t jobs. People like this:
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Latest-Metro-Fail-Sleeping-on-the-Job.html
PS Roissy, you live in DC, right? Gently nudge awake any Brothers and sisters you see on the job…
Lance:
“granted that’s probably skewed toward lower middle class”
—we can agree on that, but I think you’re ignoring the percentage of blacks taking advantage of state social programs. Granted, there’s no corresponding chart to be found (tried google). And government assistance is totally welfare either. Section 8 housing for the poor. Social services for poor children. Government clinics in poor neighborhoods. The lower middle class blacks get these services as well.
“it’s more likely that a small percentage of black alphas are doing most of the fathering, while others are being cuckolded or choose to be with woman who have been pumped and dumped by alphas.”
—exactly. black families have broken down into the harem society, which is spreading to non-black families due to the lack of criticism of blacks society by non-black.
If you spend time in criminal courts, watch the routine drug cases that come through. The sentencing part is always telling: the big drug dealers always bring up there 6-10 young children, and how impacted they would be should the father be put in jail for a long time.
Smarter judges tend to note that the guy has those 6-10 kids by 6-8 different women, all at the same time, all miles apart, and hasn’t been supporting any of them; hence the claim of being a “good father” is severely undercut.
I’ve said this before: 3-5 generations into the black families collapse, we now must seriously look at inbreeding in black communities as a problem to be addressed. As fewer and fewer men are mating with the available women and not knowing their fathers, its now almost definite that black brothers are fucking half-sisters and not knowing it.
“What do we do w/the (High IQ) Menz?
Suggestions?”
@Obsidian –
Create a system where most of them can have mates, or watch the civilization tank. Most of the those guys are not going to learn Game.
There’s no magic solution, as you know Obsidian. The only real one is to restore monogamy, and we know that isn’t going to happen. So decline is in the cards, unless technological advancements swamp these developments, and morph the culture in radical ways such that the issues we’re discussing become fundamentally irrelevant.
David Alexander, a man’s testosterone levels decrease as he ages and a woman’s T levels increase as she ages. That’s why you will find women in their 40s, even 50s, who are sex maniacs paired with husbands who can’t keep up with them. (perhaps why these women are renting Dreads in Jamaica’s renta-a-rest sex tourism industry).
That being said, if a person, man or woman, in their 60s or 70s is taking pills in order to increase their sex drive, I find it highly undignified. There is a reason why libido wanes after a certain age in both men and women. If by your 60s you do not have anything of interest to occupy your time besides sex, you are in a hopeless state and I feel sorry for your grand-kids.
Auntyji
A strong prenup.
Typo:
perhaps why these women are renting Dreads in Jamaica’s renta-a-rest sex tourism industry
SHOULD READ
“rent-a-rasta”
NTW does make a valid point, though obscured by his race-baiting: many unnecessary gov’t jobs are held by black people as a result of gov’t expansion and quota policies.
Note that NYC had a private and profit-making subway in the past, but somehow, with subways jammed to overflowing and prices jacked up, the subways more inefficient, less advanced, and worse than at the time they were private.
The unnecessary take over and expansion of government jobs is an underlying factor in many ineffcient endeavors.
NTW,
True, the gov’t at all levels does indeed heavily employ Blacks; that said though, it must also be noted that many private businesses won’t hire Blacks unless pressured to do so. Now, you or indeed most here may agree w/that, fine. I’m just sayin.
O
Puma–
Since marriage and the things that women provide to men within marriage is no longer anything more than an emotional commitment for women in our society, that’s in truth only an ongoing optional one, male spousal support should end with the marriage.
End all alimony and end the alimony component of child support. Non optional child support should be at no more than welfare levels. Beyond that the father should support his children according to his own sense of parental obligation. Women should marry men with a lot of that if they want to be sure of it after they divorce their husbands. Or — here’s an idea. Make the marriage work. As women in almost all other countries try much harder to do, than in feminist media, schools, and koffee klatches America.
That’s not the American identity. American identity is its pre-1965 demographics: 85% white (mostly anglo-saxon), 12% black, 3% “other,” everybody speaks English, and almost everybody is Chrisitan.
It’s interesting to note that with even with large amounts of immigration by Caribbeans and Africans and higher birth rates than whites, the black population has somehow stayed in the 12.5% range. IIRC, the black proportion peaked in the 1930s with 14% of the population being black…
Re: Quebec and University
Had I known that McGill (or Concordia) was so cheap by American standards, I would have attended school there in the first place. The only downside is that while it’s one of the top ranked schools in Canada, it’s still a lesser known school for Americans, it would have been a pain if I returned to the States and attempted to use it to sneak into the SWPL world.
As for why tuition is so cheap in Canada in general, I suspect the presence of basic no-frills colleges (or CEGEPs which function like community colleges covering the equivalent of the last year of high school and first year of college in Quebec) with few of the fringes of full blown universities helps in controlling costs, along with massive state aid to keep tuition low instead of using the need-based aid that can be easily manipulated. Plus, one must remember that in Canada, all colleges are basically owned by the provincial governments, but individually operated (with the except of the University of Quebec system which functions like a US state school network) which does promote some degree of competition. Also, Canadians are cheap ass weirdos who seem to like riding buses…
Women should have never got the vote in the first place. Period. They are hard-wired to choose security>freedom, protection>responsibility and smooth-talking, handsome charlatans over politicians with good policies.
Result: Society is fucked over for the rest of us, political correctness is the rule of the day and their feminist lobbyists/pseudo-academics expand their insiduous influence. Effects spill over to all aspects of life.
@Cali,
Roissy does think like one, but clearly lacks scientific edge. He often posts pop culture remix of junk social science. At the very least , he’d benefit by tracing back to sources to describe the strength of findings. Are they interventional or observational? How many studied? If observational, are they prospective or retro-? or aggregate studies? Are they case series? animal or human?
An interesting domain in the contemporary US where tech implications have an important role is the military.
The military is of course one of the last remaining bastions of traditional conservativism among our public institutions, and thus is the enemy and target of much ire by the other institutions (much of the gov’t (part. the civil service bureaucracies, universities, media, etc.).
It’s a holdout so far, but it has been under attack for the past couple decades, notably by the push for more women, changes in military policy towards gays, affirmative action in the service academies, etc.
Now despite being detested for its conservative core and character, the other public institutions in the US need the military in order to maintain their own prestige and power. After all, military power ultimately undergirds the current global architecture that maintains the US dollar as reserve currency, allows US intervention in other countries’ affairs through NGOs and other orgs that provide jobs/prestige/power to all those individuals in the other public institutions.
This drive to alter the military from its conservative core to become more like the other public institutions in terms of ideology, character will only be accelerated from here on out as more human personnel is replaced by robots and tech, as outlined by Peter Singer’s latest book “Wired for War.” As this tech change occurs, you can make do with fewer and fewer white men from red states manning the military, and just have fewer and fewer technocrats/bureaucrats man the tech/robot army.
So they can have a kind of total ideological unity among the various public/gov’t institutions.
As far as I can see this seems to be what we can expect in the next couple decades, barring any massive developments like war, currency/econ crisis, that abruptly intervenes to disrupt this process.
at the risk of boosting O’s ego, i will answer him:
It’s not that businesses won’t hire blacks; its that there are so few qualified blacks for the positions currently that they would not be hired if strictly based on merit.
however, both pr pressure and threats of eeoc investigation necessitate hiring more black workers that otherwise wouldn’t get the jobs.
its not pretty to say, because, O, I would like black workers to be more qualified. but I think that is an ought/is question.
Lurker, the majority of blacks are not poor. The poverty rate for blacks is 24.5%. The overall poverty rate is 12.5%. These estimates are from 2007 and given the recession are probably a bit low.
S. – some stats on welfare and poverty in the US:
The poverty line for one adult, non-elderly person is $11,000. For a family of four, the line is $22,000.
Food Stamps: The benefit is about $100 per person per month. About 10% of the population gets food stamps. 51% of those are kids and 9% are elderly. 41% are white and 36% are black.
TANF (cash assistance for families with children): The average benefit is $372 per month. About 1 million adults and 3 million children receive assistance. The number of people getting welfare has decreased by 57% since welfare reform in the mid nineties, and continues to decline each year. 21% work at least a few hours a week. 38% are white and 37% are black.
Housing assistance and Medicaid are harder to quantify so simply.
Long story short: 1) Most blacks are not poor and do not receive welfare. However, a larger percentage of blacks receive welfare compared to other groups. 2) the benefits aren’t that generous, way fewer people are getting them now anyway, and most of those people are kids.
@PA- disagree about Jack Kemp. his core belief of capitalist oportunity for everyone, and government policies to extend *that* into the ghettos and immigrant communities instead of welfare, is enormously powerful and appealing. buchanan/tancredo/santorum are *exactly* what is horribly wrong with the party: they’ve turned it into a narrow, theocratic, foreigner-hating echo chamber. it’s obviously necessary to defend traditional civilization, values, freedoms, etc. but it has to be done in an expansive, inclusive, forward-looking way, not a crabbed, bigoted, anti-science, backward-looking way. gingrich as his best is as close to this as we’ve got, but the echo chamber is so all-encompassing that he panders to it instead of leading it, as he used to be able to do.
lest you all beat up on me as a pinko-leftie. i’ve been a registered Republican for 15+ years and worked for a time in a Republican political office in Congress.
Pookie, did you factor in state welfare?
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/free_cars_for_welfare_recipien.html
DA,
i can’t believe i’m taking this troll bait… but, dammit man… you’re obviously a smart dude. why don’t you stop feeling sorry for yourself, get the fuck out of your parents basement, and do something.
fuck… who knows… maybe it’s all some sort of elaborate rouse and you’re really an internet millionaire who plays this sad sack character online.
Lurker,
No offence taken; I have no problem w/a lack of qualified Black staff and workers.
What I DO have a problem with, is seeing those who tout such things then turn around and hook THEIR peeps up, and please do not try to BS me about this. It happens, all the time.
Hence the reason why so many Blacks are deeply suspicious when White folks, especially White Males, makes such a big deal about being “qualified”.
O
roissy, i saw on the news that some people have claimed to have created sperm, although some other people doubt that they would be functional. don’t know much about any of the people involved, but it’s the kind of thing you should address
Pookie, as pointed out, that is 1) only the federal rate; states have their own welfare systems, which sometimes are more generous 2) non-welfare contributions (section 8, government clinics, etc.) are public assistance, and there are a ton of those.
Plus, re: food stamps: If 10% of the population gets food stampts ( a form of public assistance), and 36% of that # is black, then, given a rough US population of 300 Million, then 10.8 million black people receive food stamps.
Since 12.5% of the country is black, that’s about 37.5 million blacks. That means, roughly 29% of blacks–nearly 1/3–are on food stamps.
So if 1/4 of blacks are considered “poverty level” and 1/3 are on food stamps, that’s quite a lagre percentage.
And throw in in lower middle class (a social misnomer that once meant “poor, but with a mortgage”), and the other assistance (Section 8, etc.), the rough numbers seem to approach 50%.
@David Alexander:
CEGEPs only exist in Quebec. We don’t have an equivalent of it in Ontario. But yes, university is relatively inexpensive compared to the U.S. because of massive government aid. I don’t understand how a middle class family funds university in the States. Oh, and McGill is generally ranked in the top 50 worldwide, University of Toronto, in the top 25.
Doug1 – I am in full agreement with you about “no-fault” Alimony which is an outright violation of the 13th Ammendment. Like that other scarlett letter word, Adultery, alimony hails from a time where it was used to punish immoral spouses. It has no place in a post-fault ammoral world. Nowdays the people who are breaking the marriage contract (women who file 66-75% of divorces) are the ones who get paid “the damages” 96% of the time. So this old moral-tool, got deployed in an ammoral setting, allowing itself to be bastardized into an immoral-instrument by those crafy divorce-filing wives.
My theory is that if we get even 1 state to abolish alimony outright, then it can be used as a template to roll out to other states. Texas currently has the closest one with a hard 3-year cap. I am not aware of any full-abolishment states.
Perhaps this Alimony Battle going on in Mass right now may give us our first full-abolishment state after all the chips fall. This is a slim prospect, but we will soon find out. Here are more developments on this story:
1. The original female journalist who ran the expose piece on the Boston Magazine, getting interviewed by the local Fox news station:
http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/morning/070609_Rewriting_Mass_alimony_laws
2. Huffington Post’s Damning Criticism of the Female Senator trying to block the reform vote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-benedict/divorce-arianna-style-c-2_b_228771.html
Also, Novaseeker wrote an assessment of the current situation here:
http://novaseeker.blogspot.com/2009/07/game-on-in-massachusetts.html
we talk a lot about race and a lot about gender, but almost never about age; at least not age in the political sense. the fact that obama ran away with the female and the minority vote is important, but so is the age split.
one of the things about traditional societies is that respect and status comes with age and wisdom. contemporary american society, especially on the coasts, has become extremely youth-centric. there’s a bigger premium put on being cool, and less on being tempered. we are increasingly a society obsessed with novelty
one of the things we can do to help this is to stop spoiling kids. the more little princes and princesses we create, the more they’ll be living their lives like a fairy tale.
“Hence the reason why so many Blacks are deeply suspicious when White folks, especially White Males, makes such a big deal about being “qualified”.”
How dare anybody is asked to be able to read, write and show up on time! Bastards! Must be racism. Maybe blacks could start their own businesses and hire each other. Probably too much to ask.
“End all alimony and end the alimony component of child support. Non optional child support should be at no more than welfare levels. Beyond that the father should support his children according to his own sense of parental obligation.”
@doug1 –
Indeed. That’s the bullshit of “child support”: it goes way beyond actual child support, and includes keeping the child in the same standard of living pre-divorce — which also almost always means keeping ex-wife in the same standard of living … precisely the standard of alimony. So the ex-wife gets de facto alimony under the guise of child support, regardless of what she did in the marriage or her financial ability to support herself, or her remarriage to a wealthy man. It is alimony that is assessed on a no-fault basis and survives remarriage under the “ruse” that it is “child support”. Massive unjustified wealth transfers to ex-wives is what it is in reality.
a concrete example of harem society on the unemployed side of my city.
DrugLord-OI (now in prison I believe) suffers from a milder form of OI, a highly heritable crippling genetic defect. He is short, ugly, smells bad, threatening, and the only “client” I’ve ever been afraid of, and deferential to . He is also appears to be wealthy. He has fathered 6 OI babies by many baby-mommas. These women hang on him and accept the risk of his genes in exchange for the financial support and welfare money. Meanwhile his OI babies chew up lots of health care $$$ paid for by you.
American whites is the least racist block in the world. Anyone who disagrees doesn’t know anything about the world (i.e., is a Democrat).
Try going to China and protesting the government’s treatment of Uighurs. Or going to Saddam-era Iraq and protesting the government’s treatment of Kurds.
Maybe blacks could start their own businesses and hire each other
That’s called the government of DC, Detroit, New Orleans, Philly, Baltimore, etc…
Lance–
A great many people here have been down the road you’re starting on with DA, going back two years now. Many persisted a long time.
It hasn’t worked.
DA is a very low testosterone, low drive in general, fairly sociable, attention whore. His fairly intelligent comments combined with his “it’s simply hopeless, no woman I’m attracted to SHOULD want me” routine has worked for lots of attention, until finally people get fed up, and largely ignore him. (Though O still hasn’t, entirely.)
Then newer people like you start to notice him. And off it goes again.
RE: Welfare
I’d also include the whole home loan disaster, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, CRA stuff, etc.. for blacks/latinos as welfare. We don’t really know how much that is going to cost. I’m betting more than I ever want to know, but we’re gonna find out.
I didn’t factor in state/local programs because they’d all be different. I really doubt there are many that are much more generous. San Francisco is an exception; they give everybody everything. The free car thing is ridiculous. I’d like to see the official description from the state about that program though. All I can find are little green footballs blogs and the like.
Canada, as a nation, would not exist if not for the support America provides.
1) America consumes 70% of Canada’s exports.
2) America’s military effectively allows Canada to keep its military down to one-fifth of the size it would otherwise need to be.
3) America enables Canadians to escape the 3-month waiting lists for surgeries that Canadians are subjected to.
— it’s obviously necessary to defend traditional civilization, values, freedoms, etc.
How?
— but it has to be done in an expansive, inclusive, forward-looking way, not a crabbed, bigoted, anti-science, backward-looking way
The new GOP slogan: Population Replacement with a Smile!
But you are right. As I also noted, the successful GOP candidate will be smart and media-savvy, similar to Reagan in his time.
doug1
i know. i’ve been reading and commenting here for close to a year. i know better than to feed DA, but it just wore me down.
the beta is strong with this one…
S,
I agree. U.S. race politics is f’ed up. It was really jarring for me to see the stark racial-class divide in places like Atlanta., Newark, and D.C.
It is mostly blacks who are responsible for this, not whites.
Across America, you will see whites and Asians fully integrated. So ‘race’ is clearly not the issue. Behavior and economic contribution is.
novaseeker–
Yes indeed. Amen.
The laws must be changed.
In the meantime, since it’s impossible to do much if anything about this on the child support front in a prenup under current family law, the prenup should provide a divorcing wife, certainly if child support is to be paid, nothing else that she didn’t earn. No separate alimony for sure, and no part of the marital assets that she didn’t earn.
“DA is a very low testosterone, low drive in general…”
Ooh no he aint,doug!Theres a side to ‘ol Dave few people know about.Here he is recently in Louisiana,struttin’ his stuff.
Pookie, CA, NY, MA, and NJ all have very generous ones.
A good indicator is if the state itself has raised the minimum wage above the national requirement. I know NY and MA have, and NJ and CA seem very likely as well; therefore, people in those states who make above minimum federal wage at 40hr per week jobs but below state levels would likely receive more assistance.
MA is famous for bad fiscal policy; they had a succession of R governors who were basically dems in spending.
FS,
Actually, Blacks did just that-and it was burned down, by angry, jealous Whites. It was called the Black Wall Street incident out in Oklahoma, home to both John Hope Franklin and the GAP Band, who took their name from the major three streets where the bulk of the White Riot took place. Fun historical fact.
O
Biologically, the basic male approach to getting something is to go get it…you want meat for dinner, go catch a wooly mammoth. The basic female approach is to get someone else–usually but not always a man–to do it..”hey I’m hungry//go catch something or I’m out of here.”
THis doesn’t happen 100% of the time of course//women often do things for themselves and men often get someone else to do them//but it is an underlying trend. People with the basic female approach will be more inclined to socialist & big govt policies.
The problem they’re not thinking about is that when everyone follows the basic female approach there’s no one to catch the wooly mammoth and no meat to plead for or demand.
“That’s called the government of DC, Detroit, New Orleans, Philly, Baltimore, etc…”
Ha! Public companies! So well run…
Someone needs to tell this beta what’s what
http://open.salon.com/blog/travis_darby/2009/07/06/all_my_wifes_facebook_friends_are_men_should_i_be_worried
Obsidian – What do we do w/the (High IQ) Menz?
Work for them.
.38 said: “I’d also include the whole home loan disaster, Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, CRA stuff, etc.. for blacks/latinos as welfare.”
Why not include the whole home loan disaster, Fammie Mae/Freddie Mac, CRA stuff, etc…for whites and asians too?
“I’d like to see the official description from the state about that program though.”
Good luck. Deval and his gang will make sure nobody ever does. And plenty of these people pay no taxes either…
@fo-shizzle- they do, actually. there are a fair number of black-owned business out there. some of which are supported by government set-asides, but most of which are not.
@pookie- are you perchance a black female in DC? whose first name begins with Z? you know who you are if i am correct.
@ PA & maurice:
i was just reading an article in Foreign Policy about the year 1979 when all these counterrevolutionary movements happened: thatcher, reagan, khomenei, deng, etc. the article made this distinction between being counterrevolutionary and being conservative. for me this is an important distinction. conservatives tend to just want to go back, whereas counterrevolutionaries want to move forward while correcting all the excesses of the revolution.
we can’t go back to the ‘good ol’ days’ when women stayed home and stayed silent, the darkies knew their place, and we kept everyone else out of the country. that’s not going to happen, and those days probably weren’t as good as some like to imagine them. the only hope is in the future. there’s nothing wrong with increasing individual freedom so long as you hold people accountable for what they do.
you know who you are if i am correct.
I suspect he/she knows who they are either way
Pookie and Lance, a thought:
Perhaps the charts may be skewed on states where there is little spent on welfare by the state itself—i.e., the feds calculate state benefits and increase theirs if your state doesn’t comepnsate well enough?
I don’t know the answer to that. I’m just trying to get clear picture, since we all agree that state-levels and red-blue-purple maps would be more telling.
“Fun historical fact.”
And nobody has tried again, too dangerous. Lotsa Klansmen riding around on horseback I suppose.
student loans are subsidies which merely increase demand for school to the detriment of other activities that students could engage in like learning a trade, working in a factory, or some other career path.
it also decreases the marginal value of college degrees to the point that my degree is worth nothing.
its a dilemma for me though because i’ve lived off student loans throughout my bachelor’s and master’s degrees.
http://chuckross.blogspot.com/2008/09/problem-with-student-loans.html
“Why not include the whole home loan disaster, Fammie Mae/Freddie Mac, CRA stuff, etc…for whites and asians too.”
Pookie,
See Steve Sailer’s stuff on this. Like I said, check out the CRA…
chuck, here here. Its something I’ve been trying to explain to people for years, but you said it much better.
Now if they could only get my second point about the uselessness of liberal arts ed….
””””””””””””GNPs are for Apes
Canada, as a nation, would not exist if not for the support America provides.
1) America consumes 70% of Canada’s exports.
2) America’s military effectively allows Canada to keep its military down to one-fifth of the size it would otherwise need to be.
3) America enables Canadians to escape the 3-month waiting lists for surgeries that Canadians are subjected to.””””””””””””””””’
I’d rather see free health insurance in america than nothing which is what we have now. Lot of drawbacks not too many benefits. Might as well get something for the pain and suffering of having to live there.
@GNPs are for apes:
But the question is why African-American economic contributions are so low? Is slavery mentality that persistent?
The_Judge:
Kurzweil’s predictions are just a particularly nerdy way of escaping reality. He’s constructed an über-nerdy outlook on the world in which nothing matters except technology, and then combined it with extravagantly exaggerated visions of technological progress.
You can see best how silly his arguments are when he ventures into non-computer fields like economics or politics. (He once predicted we’d have a world government by 2020, and he’s looking forward to it.) Even his technical predictions have been mostly oscillating between obvious and wrong, and his long-term predictions about strong AI and human-machine interfaces are a complete fantasy given the present state of knowledge.
Putting aside the simplistic D.C. Villager pap that Democrats = pussies while the 101st pasty fat-fuck fighting keyboard commandos here play John Wayne in their backyard bunkers and cheer on other people to go fight their wars,
What, like Obama sending more troops into Afghanistan?
It’s amazing how the press can twist things based on who they like. When combat deaths rose under Bush it was “King Bush II’s Policies Kill More Poor American Soldiers”. I just read an article yesterday about the increase in deaths in Afghanistan, under Obama’s command, but the twist was “Yes more soldiers are dying, but we have to expect sacrifice if we want The One to bring us victory.”
I hate the press. And I hate liberals who demonize a Republican for war deaths but praise a Democrat even though that same Democrat swore that the wars would be over and the troops home the minute he was in office.
More white men indeed have moved in partisan ID to the conservative side of the spectrum. These conservative whites are now concentrated in the Bible Belt, essentially the poorest part of the country. These states receive a hell of a lot more federal dollars, “welfare” if you will, than the blue states where all the “pussies” live whose dollars support them.
I’m somewhat familiar with data on Federal spending per state, and I don’t see any such correlation.
* In absolute terms, the states with the largest populations receive the most dollars. California and New York are hardly Bible states.
* In terms of dollars taxed versus dollars spent by state I don’t see a strong correlation with the Bible belt states, or with “red” states. There may be a weak one, but this is a very misleading statistic any way because the data includes all Federal spending, not just “welfare”. If there are a large number of military bases in a low population / small economy state, then that state is being labeled as a “welfare recipient” when in fact their state is being used to a larger degree to help protect the entire nation. The same could be said for other Federal projects which result in money being spent in the state but benefits for the entire nation.
* In terms of Federal welfare spending per capita by state, the statistic we should probably be going by, the list has plenty of blue states near the top, and blue states occupy the top three positions. http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/04/per_capita_fede.php
Nice try though.
And you can’t pin that one on the “pussies”.
Why not? Their policies allow it regardless of who uses it the most.
“”Since marriage and the things that women provide to men within marriage is no longer anything more than an emotional commitment for women in our society, that’s in truth only an ongoing optional one, male spousal support should end with the marriage.
End all alimony and end the alimony component of child support. Non optional child support should be at no more than welfare levels. Beyond that the father should support his children according to his own sense of parental obligation. Women should marry men with a lot of that if they want to be sure of it after they divorce their husbands. Or — here’s an idea. Make the marriage work. As women in almost all other countries try much harder to do, than in feminist media, schools, and koffee klatches America.”"
From my well-travelled experience, marriage has a different connotation in more traditional cultures than it does here.
Here, people are looking for “soul mates”. They expect their spouse to “complete” them.
A husband is expected to be a father figure, brother figure, best friend, comedian, lover and romantic genious on the level of Don Juan DeMarco, provider, financial advisor, caretaker, shrink and doctor all rolled into one.
A wife is expected to be a mother figure, sister figure, best friend, comedian, ideal hostess, porn star fetishist, caretaker, nurse, empathetic listener/counselor, financial contributor and Betty Crocker/Rachel Ray all rolled into one.
Both are impossible standards to meet.
In traditional cultures marriage is not about love or romance or exploring the outer limits of one’s dark side of sexuality.
In traditional cultures that have low to nil divorce, marriage is about DUTY. Anything extra is an added bonus but not a requirement. (and forget exploring the dark edge of your sexuality).
It is also not uncommon in those cultures for the ENTIRE family to live together. Western men are not into that since they have been cultivating independence since the age of 18 or younger and they value their space.
“herb will vote as his wife tells him.”
After 20 years of marriage, I can tell you my husband has never voted based on my opinion, nor has he ever come around to my point of view. He is not a jerk, just confident. He has just said, no. We don’t have vast disagreements. The few times we have disagreed significantly, I ended up going along with what he wanted.
Doug1 – I replied to your comment above.
(it got posted later upstream because of the links needing approval).
Obsidian – FS,
Actually, Blacks did just that-and it was burned down, by angry, jealous Whites. It was called the Black Wall Street incident out in Oklahoma….
Referring to a street filled with negro owned businesses housed in old wooden buildings as “The Black Wall Street” is a historical joke.
It was only given that name long after the fact.
The black riots from the 1960s onward killed more people and destroyed far more property than what happened in dried out old Tulsa..
The Greenwood riot occurred but the historical treatment is one of the great hoaxes in American history.
The exaggerated death rate is a massive hoax.
The actual deaths were 39; 26 black, 13 white. Yet propagandists claim 300 to 3000!!!! blacks killed.
But the larger issue of black failure to create a black economic network in America remains the same. One neighborhood in a small town in remote Oklahoma is completely irrelevant to the larger issue of black failure in the economic realm.
Wow…Deep.
FS,
As Maurice has pointed out, there are quite a few Black businesses around. You may have heard of them, like Motown Records, or the Jordan sneaker brand, or Rocawear, or Phat Farm/Baby Phat, and so on.
O
“In it’s pure state, however, his theories are a wonder to behold and many ideas gave me tons to think about. The basic premise is that within the next few decades we will be able to merge completely with our technology and become free of the constraints of our physical bodies. At that point we will be able to conduct scientific research fueled by untold computational powers coupled with the human intuition, which we are supposed to retain (otherwise it wouldn’t be a successful merger). The end result will be a period of almost instantaneous and almost infinite advancement in our knowledge. We will create a hive mind of sorts and eventually, in all likelihood, lose the need for individuality and focus on constant expansion of out computational power by transforming all matter in the universe into the most densely packed computational units.
Yeah, that’ll happen.
RE: asians assimilating with whites. Whites are more open to living next door to asians than living next door to blacks, in general.
Anyone over the age of 65 is a racist in this country because they grew up during segregation. Not everyone maybe, but everyone I’ve met.
Once that generation dies off completely, there will be hope for better relations.
Asian Americans just don’t have the same history in this country that African Americans have, so while suburban whites would prefer to live next door to other whites, they don’t mind living next door to Asians, but they are still not comfortable living next door to African Americans, and if they are over the age of 65, they absolutely DO NOT want black neighbors.
Sad but true.
Arrakis: Short answer: Canada IS screwed. What are you smoking?
Long answer:
Countries can become liberal and not fall apart as long as they keep their core populations who are usually high IQ, productive, and ethnically homogeneous. This is why things like universal health care works(ed) in those countries. Nobody minds chipping in for health care, because they know that the guy across the country is chipping in too, and you get a sense of being on the same team when 95% of the population is ethnically and culturally similar, so you have an affinity for those who needed help.
Problems arise when these liberal countries decide it would be fun to import millions of third worlders instead of reproducing on their own. Canada is the worst of the bunch in this regard. We have the highest per capita immigration rate on earth. The government promotes this supposedly because ordinary Canadians are not reproducing in sufficient numbers. The NDP actually wants to double our immigration rate, to 2% of our population per year.
So we have all the problems that Roissy mentioned and then some: Women moving to the big city and not reproducing, voting for BIG government to subsidize their lifestyle, and large scale population replacement. This goes largely unnoticed, as the immigrants mainly stick to 3 big cities, and our remaining social capital and institutions are quite strong and can keep things going for a while. Plus, we are a polite society, and what manners won’t keep quiet, new laws criminalising “hate speech” will.
This is, of course, unsustainable. The government is working night and day to destroy our national identity and replace us with foreigners. Canadians, for their part, have simply rolled over, but it can’t last forever.
Maurice – nope, not me.
Lurker – re: state/federal aid: maybe, but I would guess no. The reason is that so much federal spending on these types of programs is “matching” the state expenditures at some rate. Medicaid does it this way, and it’s got to be the largest “welfare” program out there.
roissy:
“Is it good for humanity if a socially enforced monogamous marriage system gives 90+% of men access to pussy and the replication of their genes?”
i’ve long been confronted with this conundrum. if you can (and novaseeker might have some insight), help me think it through.
on the one hand, we decry the fact that women are able to lead serial monogomous lives in which they don’t have to fully commit to men, but on the other hand, that may lead (and probably does) to a fitter species. a woman no longer has to select for just any ol’ male presence. she can now select for the most socially dominant and/or most handsome man she can find. it seems to me that marriage might have some dysgenic qualities if women no longer have to “settle”.
but this line of thinking also supports some other radical notions such as cuckoldry and possibly even rape. if a woman is so attracted to another man that she has to have sex with him, bear his child, and let another man raise it, this is probably good for the child’s genes, but it’s horrible for society.
Well, pookie, I guess we just need more charts; however, given the current state of the left-wing media describing things as “red or blue” only (thus stroking their egos, since most states went “blue” last election), we won’t get a purple chart or state-federal chart together comparison.
I won’t disown my hypothesis–I do feel lower middle class is a cover, and not counting certain housing and public programs as welfare is not kosher, and that states and cities (NYC, San Fran) dole out more than feds to larger swaths. But I agree you’ve made some good points.
@lance – excellent point and reference re counterrevolutionaries. that’s exactly what we are, isn’t it? anti-feminist counterrevolutionaries. who know we can’t turn the clock back, but want to purge the evil execesses and mistakes out of the system going forward.
Lance, i think your statement about it “never” going back ignores the circular nature of history.
At the decay of every society, women skanked it up, gays flaunted themselves and got people to convert, religion was abandoned, and cosmopolitan diversity reigned.
Then the societies collapsed, transportation ebbed, and the reverse happened: gays were shunned, women were supposed to be pure, religion reinforced itself, and isolated tribalism emerged.
It happens over centuries, not minutes; that we may not see it does not mean it won’t happen. A view of just Italy’s history—stoic Rome, then Caligula Rome, then religious rome, then corrupt papist rome, the counter-reformation Rome, then back to secular society increasingly ignoring religion—-reinforces this. Societies are not static or even linear, but circular in morality and evolution.
Chuck,
What you said also flows right into my inverted-HBD counter argument, which instead focuses on the extreme Right End of the Male IQ Bell Curve. We are now becoming more and more reliant on Asian and Indian IT talent from China and India-yet the very things that make them so gifted also are serious drawbacks in the areas that today’s Woman want and seekout in a Male.
Do you agree with me that this may indeed grow to be a serious problem, socially? If so/not, why?
Thanks.
O
“Someone needs to tell this beta what’s what
http://open.salon.com/blog/travis_darby/2009/07/06/all_my_wifes_facebook_friends_are_men_should_i_be_worried”
@Caligula –
If that guy doesn’t care that his wife was obviously cheating on him and simply wants to convert his marriage into an open one, that’s his issue. I don’t think that works for most people, but if it works for him, I have no issue with it. It’s not like most people are going to become polyamorous anytime soon.
@pookie- my mistake and apologies.
“”on the one hand, we decry the fact that women are able to lead serial monogomous lives in which they don’t have to fully commit to men, but on the other hand, that may lead (and probably does) to a fitter species. a woman no longer has to select for just any ol’ male presence. she can now select for the most socially dominant and/or most handsome man she can find. it seems to me that marriage might have some dysgenic qualities if women no longer have to “settle”.
but this line of thinking also supports some other radical notions such as cuckoldry and possibly even rape. if a woman is so attracted to another man that she has to have sex with him, bear his child, and let another man raise it, this is probably good for the child’s genes, but it’s horrible for society.”"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Don’t forget the fact that when sex becomes widely available (to both genders), alot of “unwanted children” are being born and not well cared for. They grow up repeating what their parents did and you end up with generation after generation of un-wanted and not very well cared for kids growing into psychologically imbalanced adults.
Its a mess.
Auntyji–
Yes there was.
Maybe not as large as it is today, but sizable in most countries and eras. Often poorer girls in cities, or even villages. As well there were a lot of semi prostitutes as well as full fledged ones, who really got into their work esp. with some customers. Bar maids who sometimes did tavern guests, for money or occasionally not. And so on.
“on the one hand, we decry the fact that women are able to lead serial monogomous lives in which they don’t have to fully commit to men, but on the other hand, that may lead (and probably does) to a fitter species. a woman no longer has to select for just any ol’ male presence. she can now select for the most socially dominant and/or most handsome man she can find. it seems to me that marriage might have some dysgenic qualities if women no longer have to “settle”.”
@Chuck –
The problem with this is that the species is not *solely* genetic, it is also socially developed. In other words, if we follow evo-psych and genetic supremacy type theories to their logical conclusions, most men will not mate, and while you have have a nice gene pool, no society can be maintained without most men finding mates. Generally civilization needs investment from most men in it in order for it to not only be maintained but to progress and thrive — having a mate has been what has provided this motivation to men so far in history.
Now we could either (1) genetically modify most men to be worker bees (not only effectively castrate them, but somehow modify them to be motivated to productivity and investment despite being denied sex and a mate) or (2) transition the species to a hybrid machine/human species (post-humanity a la Kurzweil), where everyone is an alpha/10, and all sex is virtual, or (3) something else that is not predictable at this time is discovered and deployed to motivate the masses of men who go without mates in a de facto polygamous system.
In other words, looking at it from the perspective of genetic optimization is fine, but unless you take care of the social impact of that, the effect on the species is nevertheless negative, rather than positive.
Auntyji = WhiteGirl
“Okay, seriously…for any of you that live in the United States, our taxes range from 1%-2% being taken out by the State/Federal government for Welfare. That’s it.”
Are you high? Half of all medical care $ spent in the US are from the federal gov’t. Medicaid is welfare you know. We are subsidizing single moms to raise the next generation of high school dropouts and criminals. Don’t forget rent controlled apts, section 8 housing, and education for all the kids whose parents aren’t contributing.
the truth:
Auntyji = WhiteGirl
good call. i just checked the ip. you are correct.
Nova,
I posed some questions to Chuck, whose comments you qouted and responded to. But what do you make of my questions in relation to Chuck’s post? How do you see things here, in what is essentially The New Grrl Order?
O
1. Artificial egg/sperm.
2. Artificaly womb.
3. Nanny robot.
The reproduction half of the problem solved.
Now to focus on our sexual wants/needs/desires … that’s an open question.
Once upon the internet
There strode a fighting form
To fight insipid feminists
He sinned against the norm
Advising bald oeconomists
Uniting kings and masses
Shaming married barelymen
And slaying classy lasses
Thick was the fray below his words
And full of shit detection
Diminish not his manly deeds,
And portents of the next election
[editor: brought a tear to me eye, this did.]
“that’s exactly what we are, isn’t it? anti-feminist counterrevolutionaries. who know we can’t turn the clock back, but want to purge the evil execesses and mistakes out of the system going forward.”
Uh, no.
I know some anti feminist counter revolutionaries. They are happily married and have 6 kids in suburbia.
Not too late,
You can think whatever you’d like, put that percentage is accurate and includes section 8 and things like that.
Well I’m a single mother and I’m not on welfare and my taxes pay for those families as well. Also, “welfare” is for men, women, and children…..not “single mothers”. Plenty of married couples receive welfare as well. You should actually look into these things instead of just believing the ridiculous hysteria. All they need to do is be more strident on these people and make them get and retain jobs in order to keep their benefits.
Not reward them by paying them more if they’re out of work or pop out more kids.
Roissy–
While Roissy isn’t explicitly calling for the later, the logic is clear isn’t it?
Roissy: women shouldn’t have been given the vote. That’s when a lot of this started getting out of hand in fairly short order.
Numerous commenters: “But now that they have it, and have the divorce and child support laws and affirmative action and so on laws that they do, how do we reverse any of that, given the female majority, the unwillingness of people to give up rights and advantages voluntarily once obtained, and so on? It’s nice to dream about, but how?”
Doug1: “Do we need a military coup, or can persuasion work? Let’s try persuasion”.
aoefe, bhetti, mandy, lilgirl, all more or less: yes lets try. What program, where to start, how do we do it? Women’s support crucial, but male leadership needed.
the assembled at Roissy’s: “beats the hell out of us how persuasion could work”, mostly expressed through silence, but sometimes voiced.
***********
See Roissy’s “aside” above.
Disturbing thoughts to me too, but it’s been the logic for some time now.
roissy
I swear to God, that was going to be my next comment.
She’s the most cleaver feminist troll we’ve had on here yet.
She’s trying various undermining approaches to the whole idea of either game or men’s rights, or anything else this site stands for. (Other than Obsidian’s now clear to many agenda.)
“Kurzweil’s predictions are just a particularly nerdy way of escaping reality. He’s constructed an über-nerdy outlook on the world in which nothing matters except technology, and then combined it with extravagantly exaggerated visions of technological progress.
You can see best how silly his arguments are when he ventures into non-computer fields like economics or politics. (He once predicted we’d have a world government by 2020, and he’s looking forward to it.) Even his technical predictions have been mostly oscillating between obvious and wrong, and his long-term predictions about strong AI and human-machine interfaces are a complete fantasy given the present state of knowledge.”
I agree that he’s probably overly optimistic about the technological progress while the world at large is not as single-mindedly focused on scientific research and development. I stated something to that effect in my earlier post. I think we can forgive him that since science and technology are obviously his forte.
However, I don’t think that his predictions are necessarily that outlandish, even if some of his prior prophecies turned out to be wrong. Past performance isn’t always indicative of the future. We could very well be on the verge of a technological leap. My best guess is that while it won’t happen as soon as Kurzweil predicts, it will happen eventually and it is not too far away.
The trouble with technological advancements is that they usually come in unexpected forms – meaning that what we expect to be invented doesn’t materialize, but we get other achievements, often greater than envisioned.
Strong AI is one of the things that we’ve been expecting for a while, but unfortunately the progress seems to have stalled and there’s been little to write home about in recent years. The biggest problem here is that we still just don’t understand how intelligence works and the best we can do is to built models to approximate it in attempts to reverse engineer. That, so far, has proven unsuccessful. It remains to be seen if a breakthrough will come and it is an anticipated one since it’s one of the key steps on the road to a singularity.
everyone lighten up.
im with g manifesto on this one.
@novaseeker
Your link about the guy who doesn’t car about his wife cheating on him disgusted me and pointedly showed how weak and differential men have become.
What is wrong with western men? Can’t they see how weak they look?
On a side note, I remember my fellow graduate students from overseas having the time of their lives with American women. I once asked one stupidly, sine he has been dating the girl a long time, will he marry her? He looked at me with a surprised expression and told me, “You have been in this country too long. Why would I marry a whore? I’m just one in a long line of men that she has spread her legs for…”
The chart doesn’t have the 2008 election, in which the gender gap of white voters was only four points. In fact, even if not a single woman had voted in 2008 election, Obama would still have a plurality of the popular vote. Have eunuchs and beta boys taken over the country, or was it just working class white guys being pissed about the economy and Iraq?
Of course, I find it interesting that someone who believes that voting is a pointless exercise would have so many postings on this issue.
I thought those queefs smelled familiar…
Re: Singularity – I don’t think this will be achieved in our lifetime. We are going to die in these bodies that we are born into.
Also I have always felt cynical about humans being able to upload their thoughts/consciousness into a computorium and “go all digital”. One day, we may be able to create exact copies of any given human inside a computorium, but will not be *that* human. I.e. the original guy will die a biological death when his time comes, while there is an AI program in the computorium that *thinks* he is that guy. The AI-copy may live for a long time, if not eternally, but the guy himself will have died out along with his flesh/bone wetware a long time ago.
A similar version of this paradox is known at the “Transporter Paradox”. It is interesting reading if you Google it.
Sorry , I meant “Teleporter Paradox” above.
Except mass immigration seems to be an inevitable outcome wherever liberalism holds sway.
Re: Singularity – I don’t think this will be achieved in our lifetime. We are going to die in these bodies that we are born into.
One thing to keep in mind is even if we don’t get there in 75 years (what you’re considering ‘lifetime’) the definition of lifetime is constantly expanding. Once it expands at a rate greater than 1 year of life expectancy / year, then we will have eliminated the correlation between age and chance of death.
Also I have always felt cynical about humans being able to upload their thoughts/consciousness into a computorium and “go all digital”. One day, we may be able to create exact copies of any given human inside a computorium, but will not be *that* human.
I thought a lot about this for awhile. I’m more optimistic. We may not be able to upload our consciousness and be the same person, but we can rebuild our bodies 1 cell at a time until we are 100% man-made without ever effecting consciousness. You get to the same place – the cure of aging.
Roissy –
The trouble with this Roissy is that in the modern technological world intelligence and inventiveness is much more important than it was before the agricultural revolution, and certainly before the commercial credit / capitalist revolution (beginning in the Rennaissance) and then the Scientific and Industrial Revolutions in the 17th and 18th centuries.
IQ is now more important than ever. Social leadership and dominance remains valuable, of course. But high testosterone combined with low intelligence is a positive social detriment, not just from the point of view of a particular society and it’s values but from that of urban technological civilization in general. Yet women will reliably be more attracted to this type than to high IQ, low testosterone types. (Not all or even an overwhelming majority of high IQ men have very low testosterone. Perhaps most true geniuses do though. Still not all. Thank god.)
In other words, from an objective evolitionary point of view, greatest gina tingles are now selecting for the wrong things.
This was handled fine in East Asian and Euro societies (and also Arab Muslim ruled ones) by marriage customs and rules than regulated who got the pretty girls, or girls at all. No these weren’t real meritocracies and some not much at all, but the really smart tended to become economically successful, or at least enough so to have a wife (and probably quite an attractive one) and many children.
This isn’t being handled so well now, to the extent the reports back from the 20 something and even early 30s trenches told here are accurate. I still think the vast majority of high IQ men will be able to reproduce if they want to. The trouble is the disincentives to want to if their wife will be encouraged by this culture and her likely slutty past to divorce him while his kids are still growing and hit him with massive divorce and child support=alimony theft.
That is Scientifically incorrect in every way possible. Females in most early cultures worked just as hard at “securing food” as the men. Hence “Hunter/Gatherer” both entail being able to get your own food.
Furthermore animals like the Lion, for example are part of nature and the female Lion does ALL of the hunting AND the protecting of the Pride. The male lion literally does nothing except eat the food and sleep.
Your statement is just really really inaccurate.
@Anonymous
Putting aside the simplistic D.C. Villager pap that Democrats = pussies while the 101st pasty fat-fuck fighting keyboard commandos here play John Wayne in their backyard bunkers and cheer on other people to go fight their wars, as well as the childlike needling of utilizing the “Democrat Party” rhetorical device…here’s what’s underlying this stuff that Roissy fails to recognize
Wow what a surprise, a elitist liberal throws out hatred instead of arguing facts.
It might interest you to know that factually you are wrong. Democratically controlled states spend a much higher percentage of funds on welfare than Republican states. over 30% of New Yorkers are on some welfare program.
Hey but don’t let facts get in your way. Stupidity might by a highly valued trait amongst your friends but not in this blog.
friends but not in this blog.
Rain that is where should maybe reconsider the male lion doesn’t hunt so that he can always always protect. So at no point is he tired where he cannot protect the pride from interlopers. He is the one that is killing the hyenas that come to steal food.
S,
But the question is why African-American economic contributions are so low? Is slavery mentality that persistent?
Excellent question. To answer it, let’s dispense of the US-centric worldview.
Look ANYWHERE in the world, and blacks are always the lowest performing race. Whenever blacks exist alongside any other group (whether whites, mestizos, Arabs, or Indians), blacks will be poorer than the other group in that country. 100% of the time, without fail. Whether Brazil, Kenya, Guyana, South Africa, or France.
Countries run by blacks are among the poorest in the world. This cannot possibly be the fault of the US, Britain, etc.
And no, they are not genetically dumber. I reject this explanation too.
Rather, African culture is so counter-productive, that blacks are still bound by their African limitations, centuries after they are detached from Africa.
African culture is what has enslaved them, in the grand scheme of things.
Seeking Alpha: I thought a lot about this for awhile. I’m more optimistic. We may not be able to upload our consciousness and be the same person, but we can rebuild our bodies 1 cell at a time until we are 100% man-made without ever effecting consciousness. You get to the same place – the cure of aging.
Yes that gradual approach may work. One cell at a time. Or even replacing a brain cell neuron with an artificial piece, one “diode” at a time. Theoretically you could get to 100% replacement without the sentience, i.e. “you”, ever noticing. I guess the same could be true for going digital a little bit at a time, although there would be this awkward transition period where certain brain-operations were conducted in the old wetware, and certain activities conducted in the artifical computational material (i.e. computorium).
Of course the male lion can hunt he had to raise himself to be big and strong alone.
Sorry, Lady Raine
Your numbers are just plain wrong.
You said:
“Not reward them by paying them more if they’re out of work or pop out more kids.”
This is illogical. Don’t pay for the first one either. Consider illegal immigrants who come to have their baby here. These people are the lowest class. Food stamps and WIC is actually an improvement.
Any welfare is an incentive to dependency.
Not all single moms are on welfare, but welfare moms are single.
Actually Gunslinger I thought the same thing, but apparently it’s not true. Zoologists have learned that while it’s common knowledge that female lions do the hunting (which is why they’re all one color to be camouflage) they ALSO are the defenders of the pride. The male lion typically only attacks when directly provoked.
The male lion is described by Zoologists as being “lazy and an eyesore that attracts danger to the Pride” because of his big reddish-brown afro.
not too late–
Sorry, but they’re not “my numbers”. Those are factual statistics of what the average percentage per state is (2%) and the average Federal (1%)
“Medicaid” is not really Welfare because most adults do NOT qualify for Medical Assistance unless they are physically disabled (which is credible reason) or if they are a child or a pregnant woman. Medical assistance drops the mother as soon as she’s no longer pregnant. Medical literally covers ONLY pregnant women and children. Not “single mothers”
O:
“We are now becoming more and more reliant on Asian and Indian IT talent from China and India-yet the very things that make them so gifted also are serious drawbacks in the areas that today’s Woman want and seekout in a Male.”
i completely agree. women haven’t had time to evolve to value erudite intellectual ability. they respond well to social intelligence which includes dominance displays, senses of humor and what-not, but outright intellectualism, women do not like. it makes them feel inferior plus men that are “nerdy” in this way have low levels of T and their other social skills suffer accordingly.
that is what is so interesting about today’s world. technology has advanced so quickly that one area of our brains can’t keep up with another; that incongruence keeps our hearts from keeping up with either.
my mind is reeling now thinking as i type….technology builds upon itself from a mass division of labor and expertise. also, experiments are much more quickly conducted and revised than the experiments that arise from genetic mutation leading to evolution.
how in the world can we humans use the past a model for future behavior? it can’t be done, and that is our modern curse.
“over 30% of New Yorkers are on some welfare program.”
Hurry tell Lady Raine that New York, that paragon of gov’t efficiency, can take care of 30% of the population on only “1% to 2%” of gov’t spending.
You don’t need to have a PhD in finance, to see those numbers can’t work.
I’ve long said on here that I’m not so worried about lower betas on down getting laid much or even getting a wife/reproducing. I see the upsides to that in fact. (Except for that subset of lower betas that are really brainy. All of the really brainy out to reproduce, almost, in this techno civilization.)
It’s the higher betas in particular that we need to keep motivated, and yes betas too, again especially the brainy ones, as opposed the the simply dull, unambitious, middle of the roaders, i.e. the Dilberts.
If the bottom 20-40% of males in attractiveness to females don’t reproduce, so long as all or virtually all with IQ’s over 130 among them do, then that would be fine.
However we also should do all we can to discourage females from reproducing with low IQ, high T thugs.
Culture (mediated partly through religion) has worked to tilt women towards reproducing with the more successful in the past, which crudely does this selecting I’m calling for.
Affirmative Action for women is accordingly a terrible thing from the point of view of evolutionarily beneficial reproduction as well, since it leads to de-emphasizing male success (unless it’s enormous) and over emphasizing male T levels (which if uncombined with enough intelligence are a negative for civilization).
“Furthermore animals like the Lion, for example are part of nature and the female Lion does ALL of the hunting AND the protecting of the Pride. The male lion literally does nothing except eat the food and sleep.”
Now THAT’S an Alpha. The Skittles Man of the animal kingdom.
Bravo male lions. Bravo!
“Yes there was.
Maybe not as large as it is today, but sizable in most countries and eras. Often poorer girls in cities, or even villages. As well there were a lot of semi prostitutes as well as full fledged ones, who really got into their work esp. with some customers. Bar maids who sometimes did tavern guests, for money or occasionally not. And so on.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I’m thinking more along the lines of cultures where bars don’t/didn’t exist. And forget “village girls” who were/are married off by 20 and kept on lockdown til then.
Anyway, the point is — there is a trade off for everything.
Divorce/alimony/child support is a trade off for a sexually permissive, non-segregated society.
Family oriented life long marriage societies have to trade in freedom and variety.
That’s just the way it is. So far I’ve not seen evidence that we can have both, though I think that’s an ideal to aim form. Whether or not it’s attainable is another matter.
Obsidian writes:
“and because the GOP hasn’t shown any interest in trying to get the Black Vote. ”
This is a damned lie and you are beginning to lose all credibility with me. What you mean to say here is that the Republicans have, to only a 95% degree, prostituted themselves before the black grievance political machine rather than the full 100% like the Democrats. Reagan signed into law MLK day. Bush and the Republican establishment approved of the 2003 Grutter v. Bollinger decision upholding affirmative action. Bush frontlined the unqualified Powell and Rice in his cabinet. The Republicans put the unqualified Steele at the head of the party. Republicans are totally silent and would label as racist any mention of the real reasons for the black/white crime gap, education gap, home ownership gap, wealth gap, prison population gap. The Republicans have never come close to making a principled stand against the disgusting racial spoils system that exists at every level of our society.
Get your facts right.
Apparently you have to have a PhD to understand that percentage. I never SAID “general government spending”. There is a difference. Those percentages are based on what we as taxpayers actually PAY into those programs.
Otherwise, who the hell cares how much the government spends as long as most isn’t your tax money?
Lady Raine–
That’s true in some pre state level societies around the world but not in most, especially not when looking back to pre history, best we can determine.
Further, in all or virtually all societies that developed high civilizations as indicated by buildings, large cities, literacy in the native tongue, technological sophistication, and so on, it looks like the precursor societies were ones where men did the majority of the resource provisioning, as is usual around the world. (Save in parts of Africa and New Guinea and a few other places.)
White Girl/Aunti-Cougar–
Do away with alimony and greatly reduce the level of child support, and divorce rates would drop greatly.
Propagandizing again against single motherhood, as would clearly be in the best long term interests of children (with a few tough transition years perhaps, though not as tough as many might suppose in part because it would take a while to take hold) would have a strongly dampening effect on the creating of single motherhood as well, both the never married type, and then divorce for less than compelling reasons ones as well.
I’m very pleased that someone has finally broached the question, thank you Doug:
Should we have a kind of Affirmative Action for Geeky High IQ White, Asian and Indian guys, so that at the very least they can get regularly laid, if not get married?
Given their importance to our information based, silicon chip-driven society, is this a good course of action to go? And if so, how would we bring that about?
Would we pay attractive (proxy for fertility and birthing fitness) Women considerable sums to sex and/or marry these Men? Could there be socials arranged for them? How? What other ways could we attract willing, attractive Women now, to do the deed?
For the Ladies reading along: tell the truth. Would you be down for any of this, and if so/not, why?
Comments?
The Obsidian
Obsidian,
Blacks vote from Democrats because they want that last 5% that says openly that America is racist, that blacks are treated unfairly and that whites are to blame and the Democrats give it to them.
I’m starting to wonder how Roissy finds all the time to pump out the quality posts on such a regular basis? This one is yet another prize this week.
The Democrats are no longer the old Democrat Party anyway. It’s been hijacked by a bunch of non-producer types who studied Saul Alinsky and other marxist radicals on how to take over a society and destroy it from within.
They are doing a fine job. The statistics suggests that by the end of Obama’s first year run, more than 50% of Americans will be on some sort of government dole.
At that point the Chicago Mob Machine leading the Democrat Party will be in position to lead its objective of turning all of America into proles, a nation of those on the take from those who make.
They hope to advance the process by legalizing up to 20 million illegal aliens, who don’t speak English, don’t have even the equivalent of a high school education and will vote religiously for the party of handouts until the die.
Thus the Republic will be destroyed from within.
Anon (I guess you are a gay man or a woman) –
Places like California or New York are characterized by VERY rich people and lots of poor people. Malibu mansions and South Central barrios (as illegal immigrants ethnically cleanse Black LA out to Riverside). The middle class is gone.
Now, SWPL yuppies, women, and gays find that sort of thing attractive. Look at San Francisco, the Gay-Women-Wealthy hangout, with no middle class jobs that tend to be concentrated on uncool things like manufacturing, resource extraction, and the like. Instead SF is a tourist/gay/wealthy enclave, with almost no children (far too expensive) and no “boring” but absolutely required middle class paths to prosperity.
Meanwhile, states like Utah, Idaho, to a lesser extent Texas and Tennessee (both having long-standing issues with Hispanic and Black poverty respectively dating back into the post-Civil War era) are experiencing solid middle class growth: manufacturing and resource extraction industries that pay solid middle class jobs, rather than nothing service jobs that are either broke Baristas (most of them) or a few Finance-masters of the universe. Real estate is also far cheaper there, allowing families to be formed.
Women LOVE the princess stories, and part of the princess stories is the division into peasant and royalty. Women HATE middle class striving, they find it boring, tedious, a “prison” and so on.
Judge — WHY would the pendulum swing back? In fact it cannot. We will never have all those White (or Black or Hispanic) kids that would have been born to ordinary Joes, who would have provided the solid middle class drudgery needed to create something great. Instead, we’re likely to slide into UK chavism, rapidly, and collapse within a generation. [Democrats are the Religious party and anti-Science: Gaia nonsense, Global Warming BS, anti-evolution/HBD.]
S — What happens when you run out of money, which eventually you do? A: the British National Party, or other right-leaning parties in Europe. THEY promise (most of them) a “White Nationalist Socialism” with declining pots of money divvied up by race. No Muslims, Africans, etc. allowed. Socialism only works as long as you can pay people off. Eventually that comes a cropper.
Canada’s and the UK’s socialized medicine is a nightmare. It’s rationed, which means only connected insiders (political big shots) get decent care, the rest is dystopian nightmare see the French language Quebec film “Barbarian Invasions” for a stunning depiction of this.
The problem is that two groups—blacks and Jews—overwhelming vote for the Democratic party, which largely DOES NOT support their views.
If I told you a constituency was made up of people, of whom 90% were churchgoing at least once a week and believed in God, 70% were against gay marriage, a majority were anti-abortion, had above-national percentages of their group in the military, pro-small business ventures but also had no problem shopping at Walmart and liked the stor, anti-busing, and believed in traditional family values, and school vouchers, you would say they were Republican, right? WRONG: I just decribed the black base of the Democratic party.
If I told you another constituency was pro-Israel, anti-palestinian, anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, were a majority for fewer taxes, and made up a significant portion of the wealthy in thsi country, you would say Republican again, right? WRONG: Jewish base of the Democrats.
Both sides have long historical roots with their party, and yes, blacks seek the welfare and AA from the Dems, while Jews do support more government intervention, but , to a large part, their own party’s platform is AGAINST their views.
both sides would actually be better suited to Republicans, and perhaps moderate on their own issues.
Science is going to collapse. India, China, Brazil etc have a thin layer of educated elites on top of a mostly illiterate, impoverished, and low-IQ population. Without the deep-broad investment of most men into society, providing the feeders of guys like the Wright Brothers, or Farnsworth (invented TV) or Edison, and so on, technology falls apart. It becomes the Chinese Imperial model — a few brilliant Eunuchs invent stuff that goes nowhere because no one owns it and no family effort will push it forward. You get a society of Trabants (notoriously bad East German car, a lownmower with bigger wheels).
———————–
However, the “good” news is that widespread nuclear proliferation make nuking of cities through shipping containers, done mostly to create exile armies to overthrow various home regimes (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, etc) is a slam dunk. When that happens, it’s like the German hordes crossing the Rhine. The whole system collapses within years. International trade, shipping, movement of people. Everyone becomes a LOT poorer, welfare systems collapse, and you get outbreaks of chaos.
Already you see things collapsing: India can’t keep Pakistan from staging Bombay style raids at will or deter it with punishment, China suffers both Hui and Uighur Muslim separatism, and terrorism, with open riots in some of it’s cities. Iran is cracking apart as the patronage network breaks down and it’s ambitions to rule the Gulf increases. Regional dictators like Chavez and Morales have ambitions to be the rulers of other countries as well. Mexico faces a narco-terrorist takeover. Russia aims to reconquer the near-abroad.
Three Reasons Firepower doesn’t vote Republican:
Andrew & Lurker,
I don’t necessarily disagree w/either of your analyses of Black support for the Dems; but really, its irrelevant. The bottomline is that Black folk that the Dems better support their interests, than do the GOP, the end.
And let’s not get it twisted, the Dems aint the only party that has problems rightly representing its voting interests.
O
“That’s just the way it is. So far I’ve not seen evidence that we can have both, though I think that’s an ideal to aim form. Whether or not it’s attainable is another matter.”
I think we have both. It is called plural society. Within the culture there are the sexually permissive folks and the traditional types. Over 70% of children live in a home with both biological parents. Now of course that is because 29% of women have 55% of the kids according to the US census.
@ Andrew E – none of the people you cite are unqualified. Not one. Condi is a very talented individual and quite learned in foreign affairs. She actually studied under Madeline Albright’s father, speaks Russian fluently and is a classical pianist. Powell comes from a working class culture of the Carib which is entirely different from blacks in America. He worked his way through multiple administrations. The Man of Steele was an excellent Lt. Governor and almost overcome a huge Rat voting advantage to take the state’s top position.
What you’re reaching for I don’t know, but it ain’t the stars.
@ doug1
If the numbers we have seen are correct that 70% of divorce today is initiated by women, there is an obvious economic component attached. Some women actually live off nothing more than the “winnings” of divorce. After that, they get remarried and do it all over again.
On Bravo, they had that show, Housewives of NJ. The whole series has different women in different areas of the country and often the women are not married at all. In NJ, this one women had two children lived in a nice house in northern NJ (the winnings from a divorce) and was awaiting a divorce “settlement” where she would be able to pay her lawyer bills that were in the six figures.
This whore, who renamed herself Danielle turned out to have been a stripper, worked as an escort and had been arrested for extortion along with her drug dealing husband when she was in her early 20s. Other rumors from a book (written by her ex-husband no less) said she had been engaged more than 10 times and was a total slut.
If the book had not surfaced on the show, her actions would seem no different than many atypical divorced women today. One word: SCARY.
Auntyji
The reason is very simple. Not racism much anymore. Instead, race realism.
School systems most of all. Also in some more marginal situations, i.e. lower middle class or middle class neighborhoods (or if subsidized section 8 housing is involved in any class neighborhood) fear of crime.
Asians of the sort we mostly get in this country don’t hurt schools; if anything they help them. Lots of blacks or recent Hispanic immigrants esp. if illegals in classes, especially if/when an anti tracking ethos sets in as “racist”, most definitely does retard classroom learning levels for whites and Asians. This is widely understood and talked about elliptically. What’s usually talked about is how good the school district is. Also there’s the school violence and disruption issue, and animosities most likely coming more from black to white than the other way around these days. Parents seek to avoid all these things. Most if at all PC just want to talk about how good the school district is.
Few whites are bothered if a few blacks move in, particularly if it’s an upper middle class as opposed to a lower middle class neighborhood. It’s when the percentages start to get higher that the fear goes up particularly among parents, who then look to move.
Steve Sailer has written about this too. As have others of course.
Unless you are making more than 100k or so, you are probably getting a handout too, in that what you pay in taxes is much less than the benefits you receive over your lifetime (free precollege, national security, access to the legal system, a democracy). Only a few households really pay more than what they get back. Own a home? Well, you are getting a huge handout as well (and there are many more examples) So stop complaining or return the handouts to the government.
Or is it that you are complaining that some people are getting a larger handout than yours? Shut up and make more money, succesful people don’t worry about taxation of welfare, they simply don’t pay much in taxes. The truly rich get lots of their income in forms different than earnings. And you’ll never hear them complaining about these handouts. The real alphas game the system. Only the upper-middle class herbs get a large percent of their incomes taken away. Poor babies.
In sum, the generally white upper-middle class herbs are being robbed: by the poor alphas (including some minorities) who enjoy the handouts on one end, and by the true wealthy, succesful alphas on the other end, who just write the rules to squeeze the most out of the working herb.
@ Firepower – your depiction of Republicans seem somewhat on the fringe in your criticism. There are many more reasons not to vote Republican and I would suggest their inability to live up to their creed since the Contract with America in the mid 90s being front and center.
As such, libertarians are the best way to drag them along by threatening their very existence and scaring them into doing the right thing.
Most of them seem to think that doing an imitation of Democrat lite is sufficient.
anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, were a majority for fewer taxes
Most Jews are pro choice, pro gay marriage, and are fine with higher taxes.
I’m not, but most are.
“Yes that gradual approach may work. One cell at a time. Or even replacing a brain cell neuron with an artificial piece, one “diode” at a time. Theoretically you could get to 100% replacement without the sentience, i.e. “you”, ever noticing. I guess the same could be true for going digital a little bit at a time, although there would be this awkward transition period where certain brain-operations were conducted in the old wetware, and certain activities conducted in the artifical computational material (i.e. computorium).”
That’s pretty much spot on. Obviously a simple dump of the brain structure into a virtual form would not suffice since, as stated, it would create a copy of the original, but would still leave the original entity alive and alert. The simplest solution seems to be the gradual replacement by artificial, more durable components, ones that don’t die after a few minutes without oxygen. If it would be done through blood-borne nanobots, properly programmed, the replacement could be carried out without the slightest awareness from the host.
Doug–
The only reason I referred to “early cultures” is because the original poster used the phrase “Biologically built to…”. It was just an analogy meaning that technically our biology comes in large part from the “early cultures” therefore his statement is wrong.
While it may be true of a lot of females in modern society, it’s not “biologically” anything like that.
@whiskey:
I’m not advocating socialism. Canada has a mixed economy. We have a large public sector, but most everything else is privatized. I do believe in privatization of certain industries, especially because I live in a city where ALL civic workers are on strike (garbage men, paramedics, ferry workers, etc.). These are public unions; they have a monopoly on the industry, and striking shouldn’t be allowed.
I keep on hearing “stories” about how our healthcare is a nightmare, but I had fallen seriously ill at one point and was only given the best and most expedient of treatment. Sure, that’s anecdotal, but so are all other accounts.
@Obsidian:
Re: a solution to women for high IQ guys. The majority of men I’ve dated were pursuing/had doctoral and other professional post-graduate degrees. I don’t think they have a dearth of women, especially after their ten or so years of schooling when they have high-income jobs. I don’t think having a high IQ is necessarily at odds with being attractive or having game.
RE: Women getting the vote
While technically this is true, the real problem is universal suffrage.
There never was a “gender” restriction to voting in the constitution.
It was a PROPERTY OWNER restriction…i.e. people who had a vested interest in maintaining freedom and limiting the government from getting involved in every aspect of their lives.
Women who inherited or bought their own properties can and did vote in many instances prior to “women’s suffrage.”
The real damage was done when men were given universal suffrage first…which eventually lead to women getting it…which eventually leads to our current FUBAR system.
@ mo – owning a home getting a huge handout. Bullshit. Many people pay upwards of five figures annually in property taxes for the right to own their home.
Real alphas may game the system but at their own peril.
You are just making excuses for the socialists and all the idiots like Obama that have never held a job producing anything in society. In fact I don’t think Obama even held a job for four years in his life.
And his wife worked at a hospital as an administrator having lost her law license. Still, she managed to “game the system” with her husband getting a salary raised to $300,000 after her husband got a seven figure earmark for the hospital that employed her.
Is Obama alpha because he gamed the system? No, he’s just another parasite in the Democrat way of doing things, The Chicago Way.
Since whiskey brought it up.
You got to love Edison. Before he invents anything truly astounding, he goes around looking for investors. As he is raising cash for his company that is supposed to invent stuff, he meets and older guy, pillar of the community type. Edison was like 24, I think. Anyway he ends up marrying the investor’s 16 year old daughter.
I’m guessing Edison was one very confident guy.
Whiskey,
I understand that you work either in or very close to the IT world. If you scan the thread and the Science thread, you’ll see my thoughts about HBD, the Right Enders, and the social implications of all that. I’d like to get your views on that, if you’re so inclined. Thanks.
O
Hat tip to ZTP from the MGTOW forum. Chadwick Beatty has just been released from prison today!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531544,00.html?test=latestnews
This guy is an MRA Legend. He refused to hand over his bank account to his adultering ex-wife, and the court jailed him for 14 years for contempt.
SmartyJones,
Yes, Powell, Rice and Steele are not abject morons. They have intelligence and abilities. I don’t think that changes the fact that both Powell but especially Rice were lousy Secs. of State and were chosen as obvious PC ploys, as obvious attempts to WIN BLACK VOTES. And we all know how that Steele as head of the GOP thing worked out (is he still the party leader?).
SmartyJones
Andrew E’s words – not mine. Why type, when one can cut n’ paste
Agreed. So many so, in fact – Pupu would turn me in.
They are expert at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. When Gingrich left – so left their moral compass. The liberal media crucified him merely for his name. Yet, the leftist media gives Queen Nancy a pass – for lying about CIA briefings. All forgotten now. pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Yes. There is currently no viable reason based in logic to vote for them.
As Mexicans take over blacks as the Chief Minority in Grievance, there shall be even less reason to
This just might be my favorite Roissy post ever. It has it all, the entire explanation.
We as taxpayers, PAY for women to make bad choices and have fatherless kids, feed their kids, and put roofs over the heads and pay for their education. Women are no longer ruined by fooling around with low-class, low-rent, trashy, crminal, tasteless, tacky men. Beta males and families have to pay taxes to subsize their behavior.
Anything you subsidize you get more of: always. Its a maxim of life.
We are only held aloft by our huge nuke arsenal and gigantic Navy/Airforce. If we did not have these, China, Japan, Russia, and Saudi Arabia would stop buying our Treasury Bonds and we’d have to cut the welfare, cut the military, stop paying for the useless humanities degrees and women would be forced to make wise choices or risk homelessness again, just like they have been throughout recorded history.
Andrew,
You make some very valid points. Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t both Rice and Powell support affirmative action?
And you’re right wrt Steele. Many both in and out of the GOP consider him to be a joke.
Personally, I think the GOP just needs to take the plunge and officially announce itself as the White Guys Party, and I’m being dead serious when I say that. Being wishy washy never got anybody anywhere or anything. At least that way they’re clear in their purpose and intent.
O
@whiskey
(In reference to Canada’s health care you said): It’s rationed, which means only connected insiders (political big shots) get decent care, the rest is dystopian nightmare see the French language Quebec film “Barbarian Invasions” for a stunning depiction of this.”
I’m not sure what you’re referring to by rationed. I’ve lived in several provinces and have only had fantastic health care and access to services. I did spend less than one night in a US hospital (Vegas, too much sun and drink) and it cost me over $3000 and the bed wasn’t even comfortable. Good thing I had out of country insurance.
Can you explain this in more detail? Thanks.
“…a mating system where 90% of men reproduce and are thus invested in the outcome of their society, and where women’s dangerously wild sexual and social impulses are partly constrained, has given us the pinnacle of civilization in the West and the East Asian lands…”
This is exactly correct.
The foundation of our civilization is the culturally and religiously enforced nuclear family. See this, for example:
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/004725.html
Further, nuclear families are economic powerhouses. They “self-exploit” the labor power of parents and childred, and have been extraordinarily productive.
Also, breaking down the old, polygamous, extended family networks opened up a world based on contract, agreement, consent, freedom.
A very dark night is slowly descending.
It is interesting that Roissy is virtually the only person making these sorts of world-explanatory arguments.
aoefe–
No, I assure you, he can’t.
Whiskey makes a great deal of what he says up. Or he remembers someone else’s exaggeration somewhere, and then exaggerates that.
1. Married women tend to vote for the “right wing” parties at almost the same rate as their husbands.
2. Hunter/gatherer societies have/had the highest rate of male reproduction. They are relatively sexually egalitarian. It is actually certain types of agricultural society that are the worst.
@ Andrew E – still disagree with your premise although your criticism of Powell and Rice are worthy of discussion as it’s a mixed bag. But often these things are and only fully understood with time. There’s often quite a bit of context missing in SOS stagecraft.
Charging their hires as affirmative action PC choices remains meritless.
Would say that Madeline Albright was far worse than either of them. Unless you think “Dancing with Dictators” is an effective foreign policy action.
@ Firepower – your memory of the double standards concocted in our unfair media is dead balls on accurate. Gingrich was hounded as he was too effective and hated for taking what was thought to be a permanent Rat domain and making it somewhat accountable to the American people albeit short lived.
Pelosi is attempting even now to regain the upper hand from her witless lies against the CIA. Her ruse having her subjects make similar charges against the CIA is going to backfire. Badly. And I’m going to enjoy every second of it.
She has to pay for her treachery. The media will let her off but the CIA most certainly will not. Panetta has to set the record straight if for no other reason than to maintain the loyalty of his people.
@ Thee Obsidian
Steele is only starting in his role and I think he may yet be an effective communicator. He needs a couple of elections under his belt before being evaluated IMHO.
Condi for AA, as it is understood in the Rat party? I don’t think so. Now how many liberal SC judges actually make AA hires? Any?
Your comments about making the Republicans into an all white party must be a Rat dream. Do you dream in Rat?
I thought you went into lala land with some of your Blue Velvet stuff with women but you somehow surpassed it in record time. Your a unique dude, I give you that.
@ S
You offer some unique insights here for a girl. I mean Canadian. Just kiddin.
Alright folks time to pump some iron and hit the trail.
very clever.
but, if you really got real, and hung with the braos, you’d realize Mr. Ivy League Republican WASP Wallstreeter wouldn’t piss on a white blue collar worker if he were on fire.
no need to announce themselves as “the white guys party” and give fodder to Obama Pelosi.
You’re too clever for you own good. Why play games. It’s already your country.
Now, you just have to run it.
No excuses about being kept down.
That won’t fly with your future President
Pedro Ignacio Juan Rodriguez Rodriguez Lopez.
You got more to worry about from Hispanics than whitey
aoefe – you’ve had fantastic care…yeah, you’ll be able to see a doctor for a cold, or the flu or any other type of condition that really only requires a prescription, and that will be “free.” That would certainly be “fantastic.”
But when it comes to tests like MRI’s, X-Rays, and other types of testing or procedures that require the latest technology and innovation, you will be put on a waiting list that can sometimes be over a year long wait.
Canadians always brag about their fantastic socialist health care system…until they need an MRI, or the latest procedure in hip or knee replacement, or eye surgery.
Than they either wait a long time as their condition progressively gets worse…or they cross the border.
@doug
“Whiskey makes a great deal of what he says up. Or he remembers someone else’s exaggeration somewhere, and then exaggerates that
Interesting…how much of that happens here anyway? And better question is what’s the point?
Oh and circular arguments are also common here…gets a teensy bit annoying. Just sayin…
In the Canadian Health Care system it is quite illegal to spend your own money on “extra” health care resources. When the system says No it means No.
In Canada, they simply do not provide nearly as many of all kinds of resources as in most of the US. All sorts of scanners(MRI, CT, etc.) are about 20% as common. Many Medical Specialists are limited to miniscule numbers. Patients are not told that anything is being rationed to them that is more available elsewhere but it is.
@dave in Hawaii
“But when it comes to tests like MRI’s, X-Rays, and other types of testing or procedures that require the latest technology and innovation, you will be put on a waiting list that can sometimes be over a year long wait.”
Also not my experience. Have had x-rays on the day required – piece of cake. Echo cardio-grams within 12 hours, have never needed an MRI but they’re available just not same day service. My admin assistant complained of headaches two weeks ago, she had an MRI booked the next day.
I don’t know who’s been spewing that bunk, but not true.
The solution to the Canadian Healthcare Problem (which is the image of it being “wonderful”) is to simply not allow Canadians to buy healthcare in the United States.
@Rum
There are private MRI clinics and they’re not outlawed. For patients that are considered high risk for problems the high tech solutions are readily available. Can anyone walk in off the street and ask for an MRI – nope. Are there waits? Yes and they’re priortized. Is there room for improvements – absolutely. Do we have fantastic health care? Yep.
She has already won. The issue is dead. It won’t backfire. It will succeed. It has succeeded.
Democrats never have to pay for anything. Bills are for the Little People.
Panetta would rather eat his own guts than bring actual political harm to her reputation…and power. He’ll talk a good game to Keith Olbermann or on The Daily Show. However, in private, he’ll give Nancy another footrub and a slap on the back.
When the blatant hypocrisy of the Speaker of the House has to be constantly thrust into the face of a stupid, degenerate public as a reminder – it’s over.
Ignorance has won
I know a woman who is a doctor in Canada. It takes 2 years to see a specialist. If you need chemotherapy…forget about it.
Again, the solution is not to allow Canadians to buy healthcare in the US.
Didn’t Liam Neesons wife die because the local hospital did not have a CAT scanner?
Ovid: Interesting video above with the HS cheerleaders. How hypocritical we are! HS girls can dance in sexually provocative ways, instilling such lust in those middle age teachers who would then lose their jobs and go to prison for fucking one of those of pure, virginal girls who need to protected from those sexual predators out there.
As for the stories about men Jamaica men fucking middle age women, I would not fuck a fat middle aged women if you paid me. Jerking off to hot porn is more appealing.
I find the notion of female selectivity throughout history interesting since many if not most women throughout most of history, to the best of my knowledge, actually had their spouses chosen for them by their parents, usually with a dowry thrown in. I am not sure how selective that was on the female part.
When the comments here change from women, the difference between the sexes, PUA strategies, stories about beta and alpha males, etc., to political theorizing about the ills of society, it becomes boring. There are plenty of political blogs and magazines out there that deal with issues of race, welfare, ideology, etc.
I have been spending a little less time on here because these threads are becoming too boring and theorizing at times. Roissy himself is still great to read, but the comments are getting kind of dull sometimes. I am not saying they are useless or not thought out, they are often quite intellectually substantive, but I come here to read about the art of fucking hot women and the stories related to that, not political theory and history.
@Dave from Hawaii
But when it comes to tests like MRI’s, X-Rays, and other types of testing or procedures that require the latest technology and innovation, you will be put on a waiting list that can sometimes be over a year long wait.
Uh, not true. I needed an MRI last year for a non-urgent case. It only took three weeks to get one. I had a CT scan on the same day they suggested the MRI. When I needed a neurologist, they made an appointment almost immediately. I was seriously ill last year, and was admitted to emergency twice for the same condition. They referred to me as many people as I needed to be referred to and I’m 100% healthy today.
I also know for a fact that we have more stringent admissions for medical school. Many people who get rejected from Canadian med schools choose to go to the U.S. for their degree because it’s an easier and faster process.
aoefe – don’t take it from me…
@Truth(er)
My sister is a doctor in Canada. It does NOT take two years to see a specialist. Refer to my above comment. If you live in a small, Northern town it might be the case you don’t have the resources in your area, but that’s the case for rural areas across the board.
Firepower,
Why, thank you for such a fine compliment. Coming from you, it means a lot.
I have never blamed anyone for my problems in this life. Never took a Welfare dollah. Always worked for everything I had. My question was dead serious, and part of the reason why I put it that way was because White guys need to get a pair for once. That’s why you keep losing, because you won’t stand for something, anything.
I’m just sayin.
O
@Dave from Hawaii
It’s a priority basis. If you go to the emergency and want to be tested to see if you have swine flu, sure, it’s a four-hour wait. If you’re suffering from a life-threatening episode such as a heart attack, there’s no wait.
“Should we have a kind of Affirmative Action for Geeky High IQ White, Asian and Indian guys, so that at the very least they can get regularly laid, if not get married?”
@Obsidian –
And also to respond to your earlier questions re: Chuck.
I don’t see that happening, but the solution is simpler: restore monogamy legally and culturally. If you do that, women are *forced* to select mates on a different basis, and the betas who are really smart will get selected by some women for certain. The issue is that women all have access to the sexbot men. That is what needs to change. If you just instituted sex AA for smart betas, or paid women or so on, and didn’t have enforceable monogamy, all you’d be doing is setting these guys up for an expensive divorce.
All roads lead back to family in *all* of the issues between men and women. We can dance around that, but family law is the main event here.
First of, all talk about the level of satisfaction felt by a population with its healthcare system is critically dependent of their expectations. That Canadians are content with what they are given does not mean the average well off American would be. This indeed has political ramifications.
Second, Canada simple does not purchase things like scanners except in relatively small numbers. The number of scans done is controlled quite arbitrarily by this mechanism. The average patient has no idea whether he or she might benefit from one.
Private facilities in Canada are not private in the American sense.
S. – Three weeks?
Here in Hawaii, I could go to the doctors today and get an MRI done…today. I’ve done it.
When I needed eye surgery a few years ago, I had to wait about 3 days.
Aside from that, I’m quite sure there are different wait times in different areas of Canada.
Is it possible the proliferation of high tech equipment in the US is due to population and the ability to charge fees? Is it also possible US citizens are being told this high tech equipment is the only way health (or lack thereof) can be determined and being sold a bill of goods?
@Dave in Hawaii
Aside from that, I’m quite sure there are different wait times in different areas of Canada.
Rural Canada is not as well served as the more urban centres, however that must be similar in the US.
@Rum
I can agree with that, and I suppose it makes sense for what Dave in Hawaii is saying. I’m happy with the service I received, but it might be different for the average American. If you’re willing to pay for something in America, the quality of something is drastically improved. Not so much in Canada… we simply don’t have the same astronomical scale of wealth, but I’m fine with that.
heavy is the head
that wears the crown
Now, it’s on yours.
I want justice from
The Man
@truther
“I know a woman who is a doctor in Canada. It takes 2 years to see a specialist. If you need chemotherapy…forget about it.”
I dated a doctor and my mom and sister are RN’s – that is baloney.
It is indeed harder to get into a Canadian Med School. That is because, duh!, the spots are tightly rationed compared to the US..
@S.
I’m fine with it too, very satisfied with what I’ve seen and experienced throughout Canada.
Gig, I just found this comment from you by chance:
“it will be Daivd Alexander and Virgin@40, dressed in black SS uniforms, invading homes to take to the gulags every men who has more girls than guys stored in his phone numbers AND people who have MJ albuns”
Just for you to take notice how the situation is even worst than you think, I kind of have TWICE the number of girls in my phone list than that of boys.
The problem is deeper and very entranched in our Western societies.
But again, I cannot demand for a Third Worlder living in a Third World country to understand it.
Especially a country in which the concept of “hot girl” is just a pair of open legs with the whole in the middle.
Please, don’t talk of what you don’t know about.
YET AGAIN, it was a rather nice ironic and funny statement from yours. I did enjoy it. But it also shows your ignorance.
Want to talk about “Beta Revolution”? Keep in mind, as Roissy has shown countless times, EUROPEAN SOCIETY IS BASED ON BETAS. It is no more.
AND EUROPEAN SOCIETY WAS ALSO BASED IN ALPHA GUYS WHO WERE SEEN AS HEROS AND WHO THE BETA MAJORITY WOULD TRY TO IMITATE OR LOOK UP AS ROLE MODELS.
WE HAVE NO ROLE MODELS OF THE LIKE.
You have no idea of what you’re talking about at a social level. You may be good with girls (although I doubt you’re getting quality girls) but in yours neighborhood, who wouldn’t?
In social matters, as “beta revolution” you have no idea what you’re talking about, man.
P.S. – Am not particularily patriotic, this is not about me needing to brag about Canada.
I am now very curious to know if we’re dying in droves here in Canada. Does anyone have death rates? Is our average life expectancy significantly different? Perhaps we just get shot less and that’s why we survive at the same rate.
from the emergency med literature:
acute MI door-to-doctor waiting times in Canada: 8 minutes
acute MI door-to-doctor waiting time in US: 21 minutes
”””””””””””””””Anonymous
Putting aside the simplistic D.C. Villager pap that Democrats = pussies while the 101st pasty fat-fuck fighting keyboard commandos here play John Wayne in their backyard bunkers and cheer on other people to go fight their wars, as well as the childlike needling of utilizing the “Democrat Party” rhetorical device…here’s what’s underlying this stuff that Roissy fails to recognize:”””””””””””””””””””’
I have been in kuwait and iraq for the last 5 years attempting to help the troops.
Roissy,
Here is concrete evidense of the destruction of the us and its pussification.
”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””ALCON,
As a reminder to all (sic) employees and subcontract employees, as of 1 January 2009, contractors are subject to Iraqi jurisdiction for civil and criminal law.
From the government,,
”””””””””””””””””””Attached is the Staff Notice from the American embassy as to U.S. Government Contractors and Contracting Officers Representatives Under COM Authority. This also gives instruction as to what you must do if you are arrested. These telephone numbers and information should be kept on your person at all times as well as your Site Operations telephone number.
If an employee is arrested for an alleged criminal offense, i.e., illegal drugs, pornography, inebriation, etc., (sic) will not provide legal representation. ””””””””””””””””””””””””
This is a reminder that since January 1, 2009, many of the rules and procedures governing the activities of the Coalition, the Embassy, and our partner contractors and grantees (collectively referred to below as “contractors” for simplicity) have changed. USG contractors operating in Iraq are now subject to Iraqi civil and criminal law. Contractors’ residences and vehicles may be searched by Iraqi officials, pursuant to a court order, or under exigent circumstances. Contractors who violate Iraqi law may also be subject to the Iraqi criminal justice system, as the Government of Iraq has primary jurisdiction over offenses committed by USG contractors, even on bases and diplomatic properties. The U.S. Embassy thus urges contractors to respect and abide by Iraqi law.
Contractors should be aware that possession of illegal drugs (including cannabis, cannabis resin, and cocaine), possession of pornography, and solicitation of prostitution are punishable by imprisonment and may carry longer sentences under Iraqi law than under U.S. law. Distribution of illegal drugs may be punishable by life imprisonment or execution. Additionally, contractors may be arrested and prosecuted for carrying weapons without permits or in prohibited areas, such as the commercial side of Baghdad International Airport.
If a contractor is arrested by Iraqi law enforcement, we recommend that the company and the individual in question take several steps immediately.
(1) If arrested in the IZ and the arresting authority is not the IZ Police, call the IZ Police at 0770-444-1757 and inform them of the matter. UNCLASSIFIED””””””””””””
We are a major force in helping the us fight its war and they sold us down the toilet. Not really feeling patriotic anymore.
Life expectancy in Canada is 80.34. In the U.S. it’s 78.06. The thing with U.S. healthcare is if you’re willing to pay, it’s excellent. If you can’t afford it, you don’t have any options.
“single women voted for Obama by a canyon-sized margin of 70%-29%.”
And the number for single white women? Because that’s the only number that matters.
Blacks and Asians and Indians and Middle Easterners will always vote for the Democrats. Their women, even more so.
You can only compare it fairly if you show the number of SINGLE WHITE WOMEN. Anyone has the data?
@Dave/Hawaii
……..and it was likely clinically unnecessary, but generated revenue.
the US rations healthcare via payer status. Canada rations it via govn’t beaurocracy.
i suppose boning a doctor helps
mout. gotta go. my hott stacey dash lookalike date wants to play a game of “Sally Hemmings”
Thanks for pointing that out, anony.
NOVASEEKER
i agree with much about what you say regarding the value to society of marriage. I doubt that there will ever be any return to the earlier pattern, however unless it becomes a matter of physical survival for the elites.
How do guys forget the truth about female sexual hypergamy once it is openly displayed? It is an important subject to men, afterall. Consider that it had been carefully, deliberately hidden until the last 20 years or so – mainly by early marriages, womens dependency, and the cult of modesty.
Men were lied to by their elders who did not know better because these things were hidden from them. Now, all of that is broken.
Only reason this was probably recently put out is guess what someone has been arrested but for what.
You’ll never convince most Americans that socialized medicine is the way to go. Once we get through the health care reforms, that will likely be a state option on the list for the truly poor and uninsured, but everyone else will still have private insurance and better, faster care than the folks on the state option. Which is probably fine. But unless there’s a revolution in the United States, you’ll never see the entire health care system socialized.
Life Expectancy has a lot more to do with diet and lifestyle than healthcare.
Other than physical accidents or catching communicable diseases, if you are in need of health care for degenerative diseases, you are already in trouble because your diet is probably not good.
Just as feminism is pushed in the mainstream media as the key to creating utopia, so to is dietary propaganda pushed relentlessly, to make people think they’re eating healthy when they are not.
Contractors under iraqi justisdiction for civil and criminal law. Really takes some balls to stay here now.
Nova,
NO. There will be no “return” to Marriage/Family life as we know it, except only among the wealthy and connected. Everyone else will be atomized. And no, I mean hyperbole here. I am as serious as a heart attack.
The ONLY way we can return things to normal Nova, is if the Anglosphere adopts the culture it most loves to hate. Yes, that’s right, the Islamic culture-particularly the Taliban Route. Women would have to be persuaded to go back to the Beta Model, *BY THREAT OF FORCE*. And it has to be carried out, quite a bit, to make sure Women know we’re serious.
Because Women will not give up their gains. No matter how much you reason with them, talk to them, etc. Sure, some will here and there. But not enough to really make a difference societywide.
There would basically have to be a Taliban-like assault like that which we see in Pakistan. And that’s not gonna happen for a number of reasons, but the most simplest reason?
Because White Males, of which the Anglo founding stock is still the most influential if not the most dominant, simply cannot bring itself to use violence, even if it means saving their way of life, against its wayward Women. From a historical, cultural, evolutionary and genetic standpoint, they/you/them find this abhorrent.
And so, you/them/they will try to plead, reason and so on w/your Women. It won’t work.
So, we’re stuck w/the system we have, Nova. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it’s the truth. We need to be focused on damage control, hence my very serious Affirmative Action program for Right Enders.
O
I agree. U.S. race politics is f’ed up. It was really jarring for me to see the stark racial-class divide in places like Atlanta., Newark, and D.C.
My cousins from Canada are still surprised that black people lead such separate lives from white people. Mind you, they grew up the suburbs of Montreal and Ottawa where they had no choice but to hang around white kids since they grew in white areas. Still to this day, I’ve always felt “freer” and more comfortable in Canada.
Without it, civilization dies. More an more men are abandoning civilization, DA is just the vanguard, or the pope of that movement.
Except I’m not abandoning civilization. I’m not living in a cave writing up a manifesto about how the world should crumble, but I’ve simply opted out of the difficult world of sexual relationships of women. Otherwise, I still go to work and attempt to help my mother and younger brother…
i can’t believe i’m taking this troll bait
My previous comments in this post were not intended to be troll bait. I seriously wished that I knew that McGill and Concordia were basically cheap schools that I could have attended for a fraction of their American counterparts even as a foreigner.
CEGEPs only exist in Quebec. We don’t have an equivalent of it in Ontario.
Other than the vocational degrees which are offered at “colleges” in the rest of Canada, as you stated, CEGEPs are a Quebecois institution. CEGEPs are something I’d like to see implemented in the United States by abolishing the last year of high school and replacing it with community college.
BTW, are you a Quebec native or from Ontario?
Note that NYC had a private and profit-making subway in the past, but somehow, with subways jammed to overflowing and prices jacked up, the subways more inefficient, less advanced, and worse than at the time they were private.
Nearly every public transport system in the country at some point was profitable, but competition from government subsidized motor transport basically ensured that these systems would lose money. In the New York case, the subways were essentially built as a public-private partnership where the government basically bankrolled the capital costs for construction, and the private firms made the profits via operation. While this worked at first, fares were fixed to 5 cents per ride which ate away at profits via inflation, and the city basically refused to allow fare rates to rise over a 30 year period which ended up bankrupting the private firms. The final straw was when a former private subway employee ended up becoming mayor and used public funds to operate and construct a competing subway system that in some areas duplicated the routes of private operators on purpose to drive them out of business. Once under full municipal control, the system stagnated due to a lack of capital funds for expansion with most public works money going to the burgeoning highway system under Robert Moses, and a de facto decision by management that their ridership base was those were “forced” to use it.*
IIRC, the New York City Transit Authority isn’t over staffed per se on its operating side, and it has the highest farebox recovery rate of any transit system in the country, but the management side (especially at MTA headquarters) in contrast seems to be stuffed with people who are “owed” favours and such. Then there are the commuter railroads which have very generous union contracts and higher pay than the subway…
@Dave in Hawaii
The article you posted references quite a few senior citizen procedures (knees, cataracts). I’m not at all in the position to know if this is problamatic or not, my mom hasn’t aged to the point of having bad experiences. I’m glad to hear that by 2010 they plan to reduce those wait significantly.
””””””’even on bases and diplomatic properties. The U.S. Embassy thus urges contractors to respect and abide by Iraqi law.”””””””””””””
Last time I checked not many americans where well versed in iraqi law.
Medical Care per se has little influence on longevity. Preventing contagious disease (draining swamps, etc.) and lifestyle does.
All healthcare is rationed one way or the other and it always will be. The question is, how do you feel and how do you act when someone tells you that you cannot spend your own money to get what would be the best healthcare result?
And people in the US without health insurance actually do get treated, they just do not pay. It is against the law to refuse care to an acutely sick person.
Nova,
This brings up another issue. Forgive me for jumping around. I’ve assumed that you were somewhat conservative/libertarian. You’re a proponent of societal protection but minimal government intrusion into personal lives.
But help put this together for me.
Social and legal restoration of monogamy is the greatest form of government intrusion. It dictates our entire lives. On the one hand, you don’t want government meddling in health care or tax collection, but you’ll allow intrusion into people’s ability to seek who they want to spend their time with. Like all forms of government intervention, this has unintended consequences. One of those unintended consequences is high rates of adultery. Another is high divorce rates, and possibly higher suicide rates and higher levels of unhappiness in men.
The heart of my question is this: why is it okay to advocate against government intrusion in so many facets of life but okay to meddle in marriage via laws and government incentive?
This is why I’m a pessimist on the future of humanity. We are social animals, but social engineering cannot work. There are too many variables at play.
Of course, you gotta pretty big problem with this theory that white women are flocking to big daddy beta provider government: White women have shifted towards the Republican party over this time period. The chart shows this.
Looking at the chart, white women went from 55-60% Dem in 1952 to 45-50% Dem in 2004.
White men just fell off by even more, going from 55-60% to 35-40%.
If the big daddy government beta theory were true, we’d see white women increase their Democratic voting over this period. At the very least, other effects swamp this effect.
Both white men and white women have shifted Republican; white men have shifted more. That’s all.
“So, we’re stuck w/the system we have, Nova. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it’s the truth. We need to be focused on damage control, hence my very serious Affirmative Action program for Right Enders. ”
i agree with that. i’m not confident that things will get better anytime soon. like an addiction, we have to hit bottom before we get better.
this leads to a sort of cultural darwinism. the culture that is able to induce its people to strike a golden balance between tame society (read: happy men), work, play, sex, reproduction will win out.
which culture currently has the best balance of all of those? you can’t argue muslim cultures because they will destroy themselves with religion.
aoefe – “I’m glad to hear that by 2010 they plan to reduce those wait significantly.”
You have great faith in your government.
Hey Roissy,
How the hell did your blog on turn into a discussion of Canadian vs. U.S. health care. Is this now the Oprah of blogs??? This shit is fucking boring.
I come here to read about fucking hot women and anything at least related to that, nothing else.
“So, we’re stuck w/the system we have, Nova. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it’s the truth. We need to be focused on damage control, hence my very serious Affirmative Action program for Right Enders.”
@Obsidian –
That won’t work either, and you know it. So the answer is: western civilization is finished. There is no realistic or workable way to motivate the men who society needs to motivate now that women are selecting mates in a maladaptive manner from the perspective of the overall society.
Let it burn. I’ll laugh as it burns. I know it impacts me, too, but at least I can laugh at the foolishness of it all — how we allowed the narcissism of our women to bring down the most powerful civilization the world has ever known. It is kind of humorous, when you think about it.
========
@Chuck –
“The heart of my question is this: why is it okay to advocate against government intrusion in so many facets of life but okay to meddle in marriage via laws and government incentive?
This is why I’m a pessimist on the future of humanity. We are social animals, but social engineering cannot work. There are too many variables at play.”
If that’s the case then we should abolish marriage and family law, too, because it’s all government intervention. No marriage, and hence no divorce, no child support and so on. Everything privately regulated.
Of course that’s a road to disaster. One must pick and choose. Some libertarians are extremists: let’s privatize the roads and so on. Others are more moderate. And others are realists.
To me, preserving the civilization is a primary goal of the state, to the extent that there are legitimate state goals. Human society has not come up with any model other than monogamous marriage by which social investment by men can be assured. To me, that trumps any kind of ideology about the role of the state, because the survival of the civilization is at stake. Feel free to consider that hypocritical — fine if you do, but I see things differently.
Kieth – the difference between white women and GOP vs. DNC is based on whether they are married or not.
Women who already have their providers via matrimony are more likely to vote GOP while single white women are almost as monolithic in their Democrat support as Blacks are.
Since Marriage 1.0 no longer exists (only in memory), and Marriage 2.0 is the only one legally available today, I think I will pass.
Actually, the government got more involved in the family exactly at the point monogamy started to slip away.
It doesn’t take government intrusion to make monogamy the norm — it takes government intrusion to destroy it.
For example, say a woman could leave her husband whenever she wanted, but she wouldn’t get any alimony or child support. Say she couldn’t get an ex-parte restraining order against a husband to remove him from the home, and she couldn’t kidnap the children with the support of police. And say social workers were all fired. How about removing enforced hiring equality and AA for women? How many women do you think would choose to ditch their husbands without all these government goodies? Maybe some, but very few.
To go back to a mainly monogamous culture all we’d have to do is remove the government from families. It would be easy and cheap. Unfortunately, people would start complaining about how reality intrudes on their “needs” and would start demanding the government get involved.
You see, claiming that monogamy is created by the government is all backward. It is quite explicitly government policy to make it easy for women to break their vows, and then profit from it!
why is it okay to advocate against government intrusion in so many facets of life but okay to meddle in marriage via laws and government incentive?
Conservatives, unlike libertarians, are not against government per se. BTW the answer to your question is that economic prosperity is not a zero sum game, while access to women is.
P.S. Modern liberal society is not neutral; it is a massive social engineering project. And it has changed how people now behave. Drastically.
social engineering cannot work.
Social engineering cannot remake people wholesale, but it can reinforce certain tendencies that people already have. And people already have tendencies towards lifelong exclusive pairbonding. They aren’t just a bunch of rutting weasels. So, you deincentivise bad behaviour, give nice guys more of a chance and don’t delude yourself that this will result in any utopia.
racerx:
How the hell did your blog on turn into a discussion of Canadian vs. U.S. health care. Is this now the Oprah of blogs??? This shit is fucking boring.
I come here to read about fucking hot women and anything at least related to that, nothing else.
i hear ya. the wildecommenter stampede is outta my hands. next week i’m switching it up with some sexy posts. galactus willing, those won’t inspire another 800 comment race or healthcare thread.
Here are the Eleven-Strikes against Marriage 2.0:
1. No-Fault Divorce (i.e. unilateral divorce, with no recourse for other spouse)
2. No-Fault Alimony (i..e she cheats, he pays; the party breaking/violating the contract gets paid)
3. 66-75% of all divorces are filed by the wife (CDC data; Google it) – cha ching!
4. Presumed mother-custody in most state’s family courts (goodbye Daddy, hello ATM)
5. Presumed guilty until proven innocent DV laws (now widely used as the “opening chess move” of divorce – once the husband is removed from the primary residence he never comes back, and she gets the primary residence in the asset split; you have 27 minutes to leave the house after the initial phone call. Also known as the Federal VAWA Legislation).
6. Decriminalization of Adultery (you can run a brothel and still get primary custody of the kids, plus alimony!)
7. Lobbying by the National Organization for Women against Shared Parenting bills in many states. (NOW is no longer about equality, it’s now about a zero sum game for resources. Children are cash-cows, and NOW will be damned if they allow Shared Parenting to stop the cash-flow. Divorcees of the world unite!
8. Lifetime Alimony (One NJ Appellate Court recently upheld a lifetime alimony sentenced rendered for barely an 8-year marriage. Their argument was that now in these days of short-term marriages being the norm, 8 years was pretty long, and as such probably deserved to be treated as a long-term marriage. Brilliant!)
9. Fathers Are Optional Parents (States are enforcing payment-obligations by non-custodial parents with an iron fist, however they are completely ignoring the visitation-rights of NCP parents. If you are going to police one parents obligation to pay, why not police the other parents obligation to allow the Dad to see his kids?)
10. One Sided Alimony: Ok so ex-spouse B got used to a certain standard of living, so we will make ex-spouse A pay alimony. Fine. But how about the things ex-spouse A got used to? Shouldn’t we have some sort of reverse payment by ex-spouse B in the form of weekly cleaning, a hot meal 7 nights a week, and “romantic companionship” services? How come one spouse is on the hook to provide something that the other was used to during the marriage, and not vice versa?
11. Paternity Fraud (If you missed the 2 year window to catch that your kids aren’t really your kids, you are SOL in most states. What’s worse if your cheating wife divorces you, and you can bring the DNA tests to court, and you will still be forced to pay 18-23 years of child support for these kids who are some other guy’s spawn). In most fraud crimes, once the crime is proven, the guitly party gets punished. However in the topsy-turvey world of Family Courts, it is the innocent party that gets punished. No one to this date has ever been legally punished of perpetrating Paternity Fraud to this date. If you are going to be a fraudster, this is the best kind of fraud to pull off.
@David Alexander:
There’s a decent sized black minority in Montreal, but I think there are more Middle Eastern immigrants. Even so, where there are substantial black minorities, such as the maritimes, there’s not a charged divide. Especially in terms of class. When I went to Newark, all the Portuguese/white people were concentrated in the Ironbound district, or were working at the Rutgers satellite campus. Very contained.
I’m an Ontario native.
i hear ya. the wildecommenter stampede is outta my hands.
Hey, that’s part of the appeal of this here blog!
WHERE PRETTY LIES PERISH…
Shouldn’t that include socialized healthcare…which is in fact another manifestation of the political gender gap you wrote about in the initial post?
welmer:
It doesn’t take government intrusion to make monogamy the norm — it takes government intrusion to destroy it.
this is exactly right. government intrusion is what has allowed women to walk away untroubled from marriage. a return to more natural norms would mean that women, and particularly mothers, pay a high price for infidelity and ditching their beta hubbies to scratch their bmx biker itch.
Here here for sexier posts! I’m in agreement that a Canadian Health Care discussion is boring – I didn’t start it but wanted to wade in to correct some misconceptions. Movin on…
One should also note that extremely patriarchal cultures, like those in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, are also really awful places to live. Virtual imprisonment of and total contempt for women are not a road to properity and freedom. The high respect for women in Germanic cultures used to be one in the plus column for Western Civilization. But now we have taken things way too far in our indulgence of the feminine. We humans always seem to like pushing things to the extreme.
A question–
could a couple draw up a contractual “covenant” marriage in which they agree to waive the right to no fault divorce and to have fault-only divorce option and that specifies liquidated damages for fault divorce paid by the covenant breaking spouse to the victim upon the marriage’s dissolution?
would such a contract be upheld? and if so–would any of you reconsider marriage if this was an option?
dave:
Shouldn’t that include socialized healthcare…which is in fact another manifestation of the political gender gap you wrote about in the initial post?
yes, but…
sometimes i wistfully long for the sorts of commenters that a guy like roosh used to get before he disabled his comments — funny, immature, smart-alecky haters quick with the zinger. life is too short for endless ponderous discussions of weighty matters.
my wish is for every commenter to incorporate the word “buttplug” at least once in their comments to the next post.
Roissy said:
“my wish is for every commenter to incorporate the word “buttplug” at least once in their comments to the next post.”
I think we owe it to him to do this folks. Just sayin…
“could a couple draw up a contractual “covenant” marriage in which they agree to waive the right to no fault divorce and to have fault-only divorce option and that specifies liquidated damages for fault divorce paid by the covenant breaking spouse to the victim upon the marriage’s dissolution?
would such a contract be upheld? and if so–would any of you reconsider marriage if this was an option?”
@ Dana –
Not unless it provided for buttplugs.
Ahem.
Serious response: not under current law in most states. That would be considered a pre-nup, and pre-nups are easily avoided (duress, fraud, unconscionability) and when are are enforced at all, are enforced about asset division. Things like alimony, custody, child support — that is, the main issues for most couples — are not enforced when they appear in pre-nups (sometimes a waiver of alimony may be, depending on the state).
@nova
“not unless it provided for buttplugs.”
Atta way!
I disagree, but plug away with your own ideas.
I just have to point out that you gentlemen like Welmer who want to force women to have to rely on their husbands and keep them from straying….
[editor: nobody's forcing them to do anything you dumb fucking cunt. go find the nearest dictionary (obviously nowhere in your cig-strewn shithovel) and look up the word "incentive". after you've done that, shoot yourself in the labia. a lobotomy would do you good.]
Why would you want that?! So you want the world to go back to women only being with you for financial security and lack of other options? That’s really sad in so many ways.
If you were confident in yourself you wouldn’t feel the need to maintain such a pathetic edge. It bothers you to know your woman is with you because she WANTS to be and not because she NEEDS to be?
If that’s your idea of love, then NO thank you.
@LR
Awwwwww you didn’t say butt plug! Be a sport huh.
“sometimes i wistfully long for the sorts of commenters that a guy like roosh used to get before he disabled his comments — funny, immature, smart-alecky haters quick with the zinger. life is too short for endless ponderous discussions of weighty matters.”
I tried to lighten things up.Dont disable comments here.Pleeeeeeeeease!
I come in all sizes.
“If that’s your idea of love, then NO thank you.”
@LR –
Ugh.
Every marriage has ups and downs. Times when you feel great and times when you feel like throwing in the towel, cheating or what have you.
What Welmer is saying is that the current law encourages women to walk when the marriage hits one of the low points instead of working it out. It really *is* that simple. The incentives are perverse. A woman can cheat on her husband, opt to divorce him, slap a TRO on him with a phone call and proceed to get house, kids, child alimony and maybe even spouse alimony to boot. That is an entirely perverse set of incentives — it really encourages women to walk when the going gets tough, rather than tough it out, and THAT is what has killed marriage.
nova, you do realize you’re talking to a woman who did PRECISELY that…
There’s a decent sized black minority in Montreal, but I think there are more Middle Eastern immigrants.
By American standards, Montreal and Toronto are basically devoid of black people. IIRC, both cities have black populations that hover in the 7% to 8% range that places with Seattle, Washington in terms of per capita black populations, and unlike the US, the bulk of Canada’s black population is foreign born or the children of immigrants.
IIRC, the majority of Montreal’s black community is formed of fellow Haitians…
When I went to Newark, all the Portuguese/white people were concentrated in the Ironbound district, or were working at the Rutgers satellite campus.
My niece lives in Newark, so I’m rather familiar with the city. Basically, the Brazilians and few white people left reside immediately next to downtown or in the Ironbound (which is isolated by train tracks) section as you stated, and Hispanics of both Central American and Caribbean orgins live in the northeastern sections of the city. My niece lives in that section and her mother chose it because it’s far safer than the rest of the majority black section of the city, and the rents were cheaper than in crummier neighbouring majority black towns. My niece’s father happens to live in what amounts to a very dangerous area in Newark that even my niece doesn’t like going to and waiting for a bus to take her home.
Despite being within the commuter range, I don’t foresee much gentrification in Newark primarily because the city has an awful stereotype of being crime ridden despite decreasing crime rates in recent years and the relatively safe areas I listed above. Plus, there are much closer areas to the urban core in Manhattan that are far better candidates.
I’m an Ontario native.
My only experience with Ontario is with Ottawa, but maybe I’ll change that next month…
“nova, you do realize you’re talking to a woman who did PRECISELY that…”
@Dave from Hawaii –
She wasn’t married, though, was she?
Can we please return to the era where only male landowners voted? It was a much better time…
America’s health care system is a free-market?
Red pill dispenser pressed. And out shoots a piece of paper with this:
Google Phrase:
“Certificate of Need”
No, but she walked when the going got tough, rather than toughing it out.
You could have saved yourself a lot of time and trouble by simply telling us to vote Republican and get the 19th Amendment repealed; then again, you’re also the epitome of a nice little excerpt from a Stephen King novel:
“Hardly ANYBODY ever finds out that their actions really, actually hurt other people! People don’t get better, they just get smarter. When you get smarter, you don’t stop pulling the wings off flies, you just think of better reasons for doing it.”
The incentives are perverse.
Even if you don’t get the child support and full custody*, I’d imagine that women would still flee since nobody really wants to put up and deal with the hard times in a marriage. Hell, I’d imagine some men would do so and flee for a better option.
*The fun part about shared custody is that you can dump the kids off with the husband and go ride the alpha cock carousel**. The kids see daddy, daddy sees the kids, and mommy gets the sex daddy couldn’t offer…
**Comes with free buttplug…
Aoefe/Doug — See Dave in Hawaii’s cites below. Health care with single payer is always rationed. ALWAYS. There’s a scandal in the UK press, about women denied mammograms, who died of breast cancer. [They were deemed "too young."] There was the story of the UK surgery patient who got up and cleaned her own ward it was so filthy, and the two men who denied dental care, pulled their own teeth or “fixed” them with superglue. Belmont Club at Pajamas Media has the gory details.
If anything, I undercount the severity. Mark Steyn at the Corner had a bit where Canadian women are being sent to the US for delivery of their babies because Canada is out of beds and obstetricians. ALL systems of single-payer, government run health care “feature”:
1. Rationing.
2. Decisions on care made by bureaucrats.
3. Some groups more connected than others get more, those without connections get less.
There’s a pool of money. It’s not limitless, it has finite boundaries. This means rationing ALWAYS. Obama when asked by a Doctor during his hour long infomercial if he would stick to the plan he’s offering the general public, for himself and his family flat out refused. What does that tell you?
Firepower — Rest assured the CIA bureaucrats who made life miserable for GWB will make life equally miserable for Pelosi and Obama. They’ll certainly hunker down and do nothing to stop an AQ attack, and then produce all sorts of memos, briefs, statements, and other things putting the blame squarely on Pelosi AND Obama. They were there before Obama, and will be there after him. Journalists depend on them for stories. They know where all the dirt is. The next attack belongs squarely to Dems/Pelosi/Obama.
Truther — You are quite correct with Natasha Richardson.
Private Insurance means most people who have middle class incomes can buy insurance to cover most of their needs. Poor and that means mostly Mexicans and Blacks get screwed. Public insurance means the White middle class gets screwed while politically connected big shots and PC/Multicultural patronage Blacks/Hispanics (in Europe Muslims) get first crack since they are the heart of the electoral spoils system. The BNP, very socialist, peeled off some White women to argue for a “White Nationalist Socialism” ala the National Health (excluding immigrants) and got elected to the European Parliament for the first time.
Nova –
child alimony and maybe even spouse alimony to boot.
Aren’t these the same thing? You know, since nobody really knows how either is spent…
Hands roissy a million dollar solid platinum butplug to use on pupu
But plugging rum here he had the best so far.
Speaking of a “gender gap,” some people are starting to call the economy a “Mancession.”
Check out Christina Hoff Summers latest article:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/659dkrod.asp
Not only is Obama utterly pussywhipped when it comes to his wife…he’s a complete and total tool for the femi-nazi’s.
He IS the Mangina-in-Chief! Barack Obeta.
I am just doing a study for the blog showing the effect of lack of pussy on the brain and how it quickly leads to suicidal thought. I guess they where right that sex is right there as a basic nescessity of life.
But it is not like I am trying to plug legalizing prostitution in iraq or anything like that.
When I was home tapping and using my dick for a but plug. I had no thoughts of evil and was actually able to lay down and just relax for once. Also slept like the dude in that grassy field.
“No, but she walked when the going got tough, rather than toughing it out.”
@ Dave in Hawaii –
That’s true enough, although if he was hitting her, fair play. I fault her mate selection more than anything else.
Although I take great exception to a few of Ms. Summers points…especially this one:
More like, Our incoming president did what many pussywhipped, spineless, ball-less beta BOYS raised by single mothers with deadbeat alpha thug fathers do when confronted by a chorus of female complaint: He changed his plan.
Well dave all ya got to do to get into health care is memorize some stuff no thinking involved too easy.
“Even if you don’t get the child support and full custody*, I’d imagine that women would still flee since nobody really wants to put up and deal with the hard times in a marriage.”
@DA –
Nah. You’re vastly overestimating the willingness of most women to part with their kids like that. Any divorce lawyer or marital therapist will tell you that for women getting the kids is very, very important, not just for financial reasons, but also because they really do consider the kids “theirs” more than they are their father’s. It’s been pointed out time and again that shared custody would give women the freedom to pursue other things (sex, career, whatever), but NOW and most women want the kids … period. And if they weren’t guaranteed to get them, you’d see women buckling down in the hard times and working through things rather than bolting for new guy and getting paid by old guy to do it.
Pretty soon we will all be paid to work in health care and insert but plugs in each other and maybe even ivs and such with some drugs to take away the pain. 2 birds with one stone everyone in pain and everyone employed.
I agree, the male-dominated Taliban/AQ/Saudi model has not been a world beater. Being a wife and mother is the most important job in the world, it ought to be done by educated, independent, and highly motivated women. Not sex-slaves in a harem. For a few big men.
[There is a post at Belmont Club detailing wrt health care rationing for "quality of life" basically denying those over 40 much medical care. This is from a document prepared by Rahm Emmanuel and his brother, the Doctor (not Ari the Hollywood agent) for Obama's Health Care Task Force. So it's quite clear Obama intends to ration health care like he does energy.]
Women love rationing, they (until they get not hot) always get a better deal since young women form a core constituency for the modern, gender-race based spoils politics in the West. Older women of course are screwed, but every young woman is convinced she’ll never get old. Ever.
Back OT: This gender gap exists pretty much everywhere. Even in Iran it seems. It’s run by technology and changes in wealth (more of it). A lot of it is froth. I don’t see the legal system changing though. Women have enough power to block it.
And this is why I love Lady Raine. From the horse’s mouth so to speak.
Dave — Obama is a mangina, no doubt, but he’s also a Chicago spoils pol. Single women voted for him 70-29 and White Men voted for McCain a slight edge. So he’s out to reward the former and screw over the latter.
Problem is, the dumb-ass has a butt plug up his brain, and can’t figure out that patronage to women nationally gets him nothing but resentment by men in a mancession, and a lot of payback eventually. Since the “New Girl Order” of Kay Hymnowitz is based on frothy consumer spending propped up by male-oriented manufacturing or resource extraction. An economy of fashionistas is a joke. Also not self-sustaining.
@Dove
“Kieth – the difference between white women and GOP vs. DNC is based on whether they are married or not.”
The chart still shows white women overall trending Republican over time. So maybe the white married women are going crazy Republican and that makes up for the white single women who aren’t going Republican, but you can’t get around it: In the aggregate, white women have become more Republican.
My hypothesis: If we broke out single and married, we’d see a consistent gender gap, but single white men and single white women are less Republican than married white men and married white women. In fact, I’d guess both singles men and single women have trended less Republican over time, while married men and married wmen have trended more Republican.
Yea Keith I see exactly what your saying young poeple want no rules and to be free to go wild and older stable people want rules and structure for there kids to be safe in so they never get hurt.
Hasn’t social engineering been with humans for a while now? If not in the form of state laws, then in the form of religion or tradition/culture?
It’s true everything IS bigger in texas!
http://storeworth.com/product/Butt-plug-Tex.html
Ok, I’m going back to being ladylike. ahem…
Most people, even the nerd, evn the betas, still end up getting married. Now are the intelligent betas marrying 9s and 10s? Probably not, but most people in modern U.S. society still manage to reproduce should they wish to. I don’t think theri s a fair way to distribute upper-echelon females, not the least because they are people with their own individual preferences, but also because they are a hot commodity, and many people would want them. Why, even in a strictly monogamous society, would a 9/10 end up with a beta nerd, unless he was very wealthy? And are there wealthy betas who couldn’t get or buy a 9/10 if they so desired?
platinum silicone
I deny knowledge of the platinum but plug the above was only hypothetical.
That is it aoefe i am coming home and you are getting it.
@gunslingergregi
“That is it aoefe i am coming home and you are getting it.”
Promises, promises.
Let’s just face it. This country is skunked. It won’t ever be what it once was.
Roissy is so right on. Even if you suck it all up, get married, have kids, support them all, and endure the wife and her infidelities, and the boring suburban neighbors, you may wind up with nothing, that is, no grandkids, no wife, and no money. All the the whim of the wife.
American marriage (for men) is for the certifiably insane.
Women vote so irresponsibly it is no surprise black men had the vote before white women.
BTW, saw Public Enemies tonight. Very well done movie. Great. A good line from the movie. When Johnny Depp starts to get sweet on that girl, his friend advises against it. “That’s what they invented prostitutes for.”
Also saw the Proposal. What a waste of a good concept. Stupid chick flick. Alfred Hitchcock could have made a great movie out of the plot. You know, something like “Sitka Psycho.” It has all the necessary elements. Two sociopaths using each other, big money, old girl friends, male authority figure problems, souring long time marriage, isolated island.
Even as a comedy it was lame but good in a way for social commentary. Bullock, the castrating bitch boss, says she hasn’t been with a man for 18 months to show how non-existent her social life is. I guess in NYC that says something about a woman’s chastity. Now, what should her beat upon male assistant have said when told this. My choices would have been for him to have said:
1. Me neither!
2. You said you weren’t married!
But, the Proposal is just a look at what the female thinks life should offer women. Just sick.
Chick flicks are really revolting. But, they offer a window into the mind of the female. Pretty bad, huh?
Keith:
This would be a good point if the Democratic and Republican parties had represented constant ideological positions through all these years. Yet, for many decades, the entire political mainstream has been shifting left almost uniformly in the direction of big provider government and progressivist social reengineering. (I say “almost” because there have been a few episodes of noticeable, but still mild and ultimately inconsequential reaction.) On most issues, yesterday’s center positions are today’s far right ones — the only significant exception I can think of is that the progressives have given up on crude economic paleo-socialism.
Thus, the shift of the white electorate towards Republicans doesn’t indicate any actual rightward shift in their outlook; it merely means that they’ve been drifting leftward somewhat more slowly than the political center. And the fact that white women have shifted towards Republicans less than men implies that they’ve indeed become, on average, more leftist than men.
Roissy you just need to get a thing that shifts posts over to the race thread automatically. Like if it has white black mexican asian then it auto shifts the comment over. Then you can expand upon that at later times as the need dictates.
Kind of like you could have it auto shift to the but plug thread.
Maybe someone could hook it up.
Anon — that is factually incorrect. See my blog for the breakdown, there has been according to the GSS, an increase in never-married men from 5% in 1974 (Ages 35-40) to 25% (Ages 35-40) … and that’s for White Men. Add in high levels of divorce, and the skyrocketing single motherhood (illegitimate, aka Lady Raine) rates across the West including the US, and it’s clear many men are not getting married, a significant portion of them, and we are into a post-Marriage, single motherhood society. For example, the White Illegitimacy rate was under 3% according to Juan Williams in his 2006 Father’s Day column in the WSJ, it is not over 40% for the White Working class and 20% for the White Middle Class (according to Charles Murray at American Entreprise Blog).
Women’s sexual freedom implies women will share the few hot men, buy with immigrant labor household help, and many men will be priced out of the market. Given that 80% of all women who ever lived reproduced but only 40% of men, that’s the standard for human sexual reproduction, implying both huge social instability (think about it) and genetic bottlenecks (think there also).
Dam I can no longer post on sites where you have to click to post. I guess I have abused the system lol
Tried to post at your site aoefe.
S,
Life expectancy in Canada is 80.34. In the U.S. it’s 78.06. The thing with U.S. healthcare is if you’re willing to pay, it’s excellent. If you can’t afford it, you don’t have any options.
Again, you fail to truly understand data (but in fairness, very few women are smart enough to analyze data).
In the US, 13% of the people are black, and another 14% are Hispanic.
White Americans have the same life expectancy as white Canadians. The same goes for Asian Americans vs. Asian Canadians. Period.
And no, it does not mean that white Americans are ‘racist’. Rather, it means that black Americans are obese, have poor diets, and are insufficiently aware of how to live a healthy lifestyle.
whiskey – And this is why I love Lady Raine. From the horse’s mouth so to speak.
Or the anteater’s nose.
Thank god we now appear to be free from this AuntyJi/white girl piece of shit.
I swear, her type is the WORST type of woman around. Worse than the average SWPL urban chick.
Virgin@40:
Here are the results of some polls from a few weeks before the election, according to which Obama won by a landslide among unmarried white women:
http://www.wvwvaf.org/our-research/marriage-gap-drives-obama-margin
It’s the website of some feminist organization, but I have no reason to doubt the numbers. Even just for young women, the contrast between married and unmarried ones holds. From the above link:
@gunslingergregi
“Tried to post at your site aoefe.”
Awww too bad you couldn’t….I love comments.
Thanks for stopping by.
roissy:
“sometimes i wistfully long for the sorts of commenters that a guy like roosh used to get before he disabled his comments — funny, immature, smart-alecky haters quick with the zinger. life is too short for endless ponderous discussions of weighty matters.”
you sound like george clooney or some other celebrity that decries the paparazzi and media attention that comes with superstardom.
truthfully, you can’t have it both ways.
as a regular commenter here, i come for the stimulating debate and the random hilarity that often ensues. if i wanted all funny all the time i’d read The Onion, if I wanted dull, serious debate I’d read some boring site like Stevel Sailer, but I read here most often because it provides a good mix.
you’re not “typecast” and that’s your strong suit. just my opinion.
stark racial-class divide
That’s because neighborhoods with too many blacks become unlivable. Try it sometime in Canada.
It’s not just the crime, but mainly the nuisance bahavior, loud thumping music, nasty looks, shitty attitude, utter lack of property upkeep if not outright property destruction, and shrill jabbering at all hours of the day and night.
I am going to repeat my oft-mention stand :
Anyone who thinks alimony is justified in this day and age is effectively admitting that women are INFERIOR, I repeat, INFERIOR to men. If women are equal, they do not deserve alimony. If they deserve alimony, they are inferior.
Any woman here care to lock horns with me on this? If you do, try to avoid your typical ‘anecdotes as proof’ strategy.
Now are the intelligent betas marrying 9s and 10s? Probably not, but most people in modern U.S. society still manage to reproduce should they wish to. I don’t think theri s a fair way to distribute upper-echelon females, not the least because they are people with their own individual preferences, but also because they are a hot commodity, and many people would want them. Why, even in a strictly monogamous society, would a 9/10 end up with a beta nerd, unless he was very wealthy? And are there wealthy betas who couldn’t get or buy a 9/10 if they so desired?
I suspect a large number of intelligent betas (though, granted, not the majority) would be happier with a smart 5 than an average intelligence 9 or 10. (Heck, even given equal intelligence I’d still tend to prefer the 5 to the 9 or 10, but I realize I’m an exception here.) But even they have serious problems finding mates. So this isn’t just about upper-echelon females conventionally defined. It’s about lots of average looks, fairly high intelligence females being socialized against building a lifelong relationship with the intelligent and long-term-oriented betas that are their natural partners, via an ideology elevating the “natural” gina tingle over all else.
(And at least as far as I’m concerned, most of those women aren’t worth gaming, because there is nothing worthwhile to “win”. Socialized differently, they’d be worth marrying even in today’s pathological legal climate, but as is? Forget it, they’re all investments with negative expected returns.)
””””””””Tood
Thank god we now appear to be free from this AuntyJi/white girl piece of shit.
I swear, her type is the WORST type of woman around. Worse than the average SWPL urban chick.”””””””””””
And that type of freedom takes sacrifice and maybe a few posts he he he
The only way to reduce the child-support = spousal support Trojan Horse is :
1) Have a properly-done Pre-nup (with lawyers on both sides), that, among other things, mandate that you, in the event of divorce, resolve your financial division issues through mediation or a panel of friends/relatives from both sides. Avoid the court system at all costs, as even your lawyer is not on your side.
This at least decreases the chance of divorce (and hence decreases the chances you will face the child-support Trojan horse).
Furthermore, asking for a pre-nup is also a great way to establish that you will not be a wussy Beta in the marriage. If you are afraid to ask and don’t believe you can persuade her that it is mutually beneficial, then you are not ready for a 21st century marriage, my friend.
2) Marry a woman with an income similar to yours.
3) Failing point 2), establish a Trust or Family Limited Partnership in Nevada (where laws are favorable to this). Have your attorney be the administrator of the Trust, so that your name is not on the initial paperwork. Fund the trust with something small like $200. Then, have him resign as the administrator, and move your assets to that. Have your employer pay the FLP or Trust, instead of you directly (although I have yet to verify if corporate employers would agree to do this). Then have the FLP pay you a salary about 20-40% lower than your original salary, thus reducing *your* income.
Then, with *your* reduced income, buy long-term care insurance. That will ensure that if you need care in your old age, you will have a professional fully paid to do so, while also depleting your present assets (which are subject to divorce court).
Do not own the house in your name. Have your FLP own the house, so that it is in your mother’s name, but you are paying rent. Then, she cannot ‘take’ the house.
This helps you not only in divorce, but if someone sues you for something else too.
Again, none of this is 100% foolproof, but it would take a lot for an ex-wife to crack all this to get the maximum. Simply mentioning all this in passing will intimidate her into thinking you know much more than her about assets, trusts, courts, etc.
Deterrance is a powerful preserver of peace, as we learned in the Cold War.
4) Of course, never let your Game skills atrophy. This is also crucial to preventing divorce. Most important are : make sure you are in charge in spending decisions, and make sure she sees other women talking/flirting with you from time to time.
5) Make sure you get pictures of her naked, in your possession.
Put this multi-layer plan in place, and you should be safe in 21st-century America.
That’s because neighborhoods with too many blacks become unlivable. Try it sometime in Canada.
An idiot could spin that around and say that should break up all the black neighbourhoods in the United States and spinkle them around the country in small numbers.
It’s not just the crime, but mainly the nuisance bahavior, loud thumping music, nasty looks, shitty attitude, utter lack of property upkeep if not outright property destruction, and shrill jabbering at all hours of the day and night.
As somebody who lived in a black neighbourhood for most of his life, your observations are somewhat accurate, but muted in the context of a (high) prole and middle class black neighbourhood with owner-occupied homes…
What may not have been clear in my comment is that I don’t begrudge blacks or anyone else living as they like… But absent endless white flight or some forms of voluntary segregation, whites are damned to constant disposession. Some call that ethnic cleansing.
I gave an intra-racial example recently of a redneck friend of mine who was pissed off about yuppies moving into his lower-prole white neighborhood in Tennessee and passing ordnances against working on cars.
Rednecks like shadetree mechanics, yuppies like pristine appearances. Mixing people who don’t like each other is stupid.
Vladmir — that’s an old observation. Women voted in droves for the “handsome” candidates JFK, and before that Harding. Who at the time, was considered the “modern” candidate in contrast to the ethnic machine-driven Democrats. This is why Democrats always pose around like JFK, because women fall for it predictably.
Willard — Not sure I get it wrt Lady Raine. But since she does not edit what she says, it’s pretty clear what’s on her mind and to me at least a lot of women are like her. Probably most women her age share most of her characteristics wrt attitudes/beliefs. She’s a useful check on what women actually think instead of the polite fictions they tout in public.
Obsidian:
“What I DO have a problem with, is seeing those who tout such things then turn around and hook THEIR peeps up, and please do not try to BS me about this.”
Knowing people has always been and always will be a big deal. Nothing is ever going to change that.
I suppose that one way to improve the possibility of a black man getting that “Hey, I heard about a job” phone call would be to perhaps become friends with some white people of similar interests. That is not exactly helped by the all black associations, the whites not really welcome clubs and not too well disguised anti-white haters who are apparently quite welcome amongst the majority of black Americans.
That is the way it is, like it or not; outside of work, the bulk of blacks and whites do not hang out and that is not going to change in the foreseeable future. Edge bleed excepted, of course.
Kind of reminds me of this article I read once where this black lady was complaining that she wasn’t making the big bucks because she spent all her time in the office while all the deals were being made on the golf course. Never occurred to her to take up golf and go where the deals are being made.
Captcha: LadyButtplug
Thanks Roissy. I look forward to your next literary tour de force. I know I won’t be disappointed. As far as the commentators, as you said, witty, immature, sarcastic haters are the best to read, so long as they are saying something that has some kernel of truth which is related to what you write so well on, namely, the dynamics between the sexes. So a hopefully a few more commentators can sound bit more like Pope or Byron or even Roissy himself and less like Newton or David Hume or some herbus maximus who writes economic pieces for the NY Times.
would be happier with a smart 5 than an average intelligence 9 or 10
While he’d get along with the 5, he’d have better sex with the 10, thus the dilemma before many men. Do you go for sex or for the woman who tolerates your presence? In ideal world, one would simply be an alpha, get the hot sex with multiple women and keep platonic female friends for emotional support. Sadly, marriage forces us to pick one, and from my perspective, if you pick the 5, you’ll cheat on her galore with better looking women. If you pick the 10, you’ll be miserably outside of the sex, and you’ll be frustrated with your average children.
so this would lead one to believe that they ought not to get married and just continue banging 10s.
yah, i can hang with that…
ought not to get married
yeah, i didn’t think that sounded right
Does Canadian health care provide subsidized buttplugs?
”””””””””””””Puma
Hat tip to ZTP from the MGTOW forum. Chadwick Beatty has just been released from prison today!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,531544,00.html?test=latestnews
This guy is an MRA Legend. He refused to hand over his bank account to his adultering ex-wife, and the court jailed him for 14 years for contempt.”””””””””””””””””’
Wow that is amazing I guess you don’t have to kill em you can do 14 years in prison. Wtf killers don’t stay in that long.
@maurice
“Does Canadian health care provide subsidized buttplugs?”
Canadian health care ensures every Canadian has access to the best buttplugs taxpayer money can buy. They are not as technologically advanced as the US (i.e they’re not inserted mechanically) and the wait lists are high but they’re given to the folks who need them most first. Canadians may have to wait for up to four weeks to receive one but satisfaction surveys have shown they feel it’s worth it. Mental Health has reported reductions in seasonal depression (aka SAD) when this initiative was inserted…into policy.
Does canadian healthcare provide for money for hookers for cases of depression?
That’s right gunslinger. There were some PA lawyers on a WSJ thread last year that were speculating that if he had murdered her, he would have been better off.
“A woman is two-thirds womb. The other third is a network of nerves and sentimentality. To “emancipate” her, is to hand her over to the tender mercies of clerics, who have learned to “play” upon her emotionalism. “-Ragnar Redbeard
It would not have been murder.
You hear stories but is that all there is to it I mean jesus man just when you thought it was bad. You realize it can be a living hell. They should just treat child support as welfare gov foots the bill.
Justifiable himicide. I am not up on latest.
I agree with Roissy’s concluding sentence; the end times have arrived. At least for what we currently call “Western Civilization”.
The UK is about 10-20 years ahead of us in going down a ruinous path.
1. Check out this BBC report on their marriage-rates:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7314435.stm
2. Check out this F4J Video on their homepage below:
http://www.fathers-4-justice.org/f4j/
@gunslingergregi
I’m sorry to say hookers, ladies of the evening, sidewalk hostesses, curb servers, man trollers, boy toys, spread benders,, motel attendants, luxury lovers, lane lieutenants, parking proxy’s, trixies, trick trippers, tricks for treaters, park panthers, pantie busters, pony dancers, lot lizzards, truckstop tid bits, pro’s, working girls, money honey’s,etc. are considered private contractors by Canada Health and their customers are considered outside the jurisdiction of our current insurance provisions although the workers themselves are covered under the P.I.M.P. Act.
Maybe that explains all those Hollywood productions in Vancouver- free and unlimited buttplugs. I bet Tom Cruise makes stealth trips to clinics in Saskatchewan all the time. Add “medical” marijuana and you may as well roll up the Hollywood sign and ship it north…
Well what kind of “health” care is that?
@maurice –
“I bet Tom Cruise makes stealth trips to clinics in Saskatchewan all the time”
Tom helped come up with the prototype actually. Through his Scientology practice he was given a mandate to make a difference in the world. He’s tried unsung hero but thought he’d go for unslung here in Canada. He volunteered to submit to random testing of his unit on himself so sure was he of his design. (ewwwww can’t go further than that—-just threw up a little bit in my mouth)
@maurice ” Add “medical” marijuana and you may as well roll up the Hollywood sign and ship it north… ”
We have medical marijuana here!!!
from the article ”””””””’”Marriage affirms the goodness and rightness of love between a man and a woman, affirms this in the public sphere, beyond private arrangements, and is the best option for couples to grow together in mutual support,” he said. ””””””””””””””
Grow together in mutual support. If that was what it was it would be unstoppable from what I always thought. It is sad really.
Wait a sec so that is how they took the guns away. Makes sense. Give everyone weed and the world becomes safer maybe.
“In grow together in mutual support” … is that what they are calling lifetime alimony these days?
Racer X:
Sex differences would not be so fine-tuned if women didn’t do most of the choosing when we actually evolved, which is mostly not in recorded history. Clearly men did some of the choosing too, or we wouldn’t have female tricks like exaggerated hourglass figure or big breasts even though that is not better for supplying milk. We would certainly not have female hypergamy, which is what we observe now and not merely some theoretical prediction, just by parents choosing spouses. Just like in most other species, females had most of the selectivity. If you think this is wrong and boring and irrelevant to game, please provide some references. The dowry is also not what you think but is best seen as advance inheritance to the bride, by no means to be confused with bride price, which is more common anyway.
Kudos to roissy for getting away from dating mumbo-jumbo and going into challenging Half Sigma-esque debates.
Has not roissy already asked whether technology creates a Beta society? Or, does a lo-tech society favour Alpha traits? Nowadays, almost anyone who’s born will make into adulthood and have a chance of transmitting their genes into the next generation hence Alpha genes will be diluted (or, in other words, you have to be outright O**** to not have your genes spread). In the ‘good old days’, few made it past infancy – you had to be tough and merciless to survive let alone thrive. If you wanted meat on the table you had to kill and carve the animal yourself so you wouldn’t give a hoot about animal rights. Today, many people either buy meat in quaint packages or go vegetarian whilst cuddling critters.
However, one big thing about the sexual revolution/devolution is birth control. Nowadays, women get to choose when and with whom they will have babies. Currently most women choose to get pregnant late in their fertility span to Betas. In the old times a great many rampaging men do what a lot of animals do – they killed the men, kill their offspring, raped the local women and made sure merciless uber-Alpha genes continued to the next generation. At the very least, a woman could expect to get married very young, have her first child quite young, and if she survived childbirth, she would get pregnant again and again. Hence high quality genes would be passed from generation to generation though the amount of free will (especially on the woman’s side) doesn’t inspire personal awe.
Undoubtably, if modern society collapsed and everyone had to become hunter/gatherers or bare subsistence farmers to have a chance of survvial (heck the Amish would seem hi-tech and well-off in comparison) then Alpha genes and real men would start to reappear. The big problem is that if you’re not one of the Alpha men then you’re life is going suck (if you live at all) and how many are confident to believe they’ll be one of the few who will have it good in an Alpha-favouring society?
within such a party of twelve, i stumble along into this family reunion on behalf of my grandfather. my family of four plus my younger sister’s husband secures a nearby “cabin.” the inhibitions of “family behavior” barely veil the fact that there are no girls here, at all. our extended roster dined at a ‘club’ tonight which seated a few “acceptable,” aged, pseudo-5s that were escorted by overtanned, unfashionable, long-ago sweethearts. they all met the tatted, sunstained, within-30-miles-of-birthplace mold; attempting to swoop them would damage the economy even further.
after four and a half days, i can’t take it anymore. i use a shyla stylez/nikki benz scene from my macbook harddrive to put out any proverbial fire. i blast my firehose into a tissue, wrap that into another nearby tissue, disguise it all within a paper towel, and toss it onto the far side of the empty double bed across the room (after all, this cabin is underpopulated). not twelve hours later, i look to dispose this ball of trash and am greeted by a disgusting new element: ants have infested my cumball ragtissue. there are at least two dozen ants feasting upon my jizzbomb without conclusive recluse. i tidied them up and pretended it all never happened, though i kept a watchful eye out near my reserve chewing gum stash (and other, similar places, for example).
what is the proverbial, philosophical, and metaphysical explanation for such an oddity???
roissy, don’t know if you read comment threads this far, but here’s a possible beta of the month candidate:
http://open.salon.com/blog/travis_darby/2009/07/06/all_my_wifes_facebook_friends_are_men_should_i_be_worried
@GNPs are for Apes:
The juxtaposition of those two statements were unfortunate. I wasn’t trying to prove anything by stating the average life expectancies for both countries; I was just responding to aoefe’s inquisition.
@DA
An idiot could spin that around and say that should break up all the black neighbourhoods in the United States and spinkle them around the country in small numbers.
Isn’t that pretty much what Section 8 housing is?
Wonderful way to redistribute the crime from the inner cities to suburbia…
and there’s this new MTV show out called “I Can’t Believe She’s Dating Him” that basically demonstrates all the stuff you’ve been writing about.
the premise is basically alpha guys and their cute, often nice/sweet girlfriends, and showing the alpha guys act alpha/bad boyish while their girlfriends get (or at least pretend to) upset at them for not paying attention to them, for flirting with other girls, etc.
now the tone of the show, as you’d expect, is basically like SWPL style mockery/sarcasm. it’s not surprising considering that the writers/producers of the show are most likely (like all TV/film writers/producers) the kind you’d find working at the Daily Show with Jon Stewart: hyper-literate liberal arts/humanities major, SWPL, wimpy, herb types.
so they use snarky narration and are constantly referring to the alpha guys as “douchebags.” and the show usually ends with the girl leaving the alphas, and you can tell with all the snarky narration that this is how the beta herb writers/producers of the show see it as a vindication of sorts. the “douchebag” alphas they relentlessly mock are supposed to be losers that lose their hot girls, who presumably are going to then hook up with beta herbs like themselves.
but the funny/sad thing about the whole thing is that everything in the show indicates exactly the opposite of what the beta writers/producers seem to desire/believe it to be. the cute and nice girlfriends are obviously attracted to the alphas/bad boys. hell, they even explicitly say that they love the whole dangerous bad boy thing, chasing after them, etc. they always feign anger and disgust when their alpha boyfriends are explicitly flirting with girls and getting attention from other girls, but it’s clear that this only makes them find their alpha BFs more attractive.
it’s an excellent show that elucidates all your concepts and principles very well.
all the alpha guys on the show are types you’ve discussed before: the peacock, the socially dominant jock, the tatooed wild guy, the lone wolf, etc.
it’s even better because it’s been developed by omega herb writers/producers who seem to have deluded themselves into thinking that all these hot girls end up hating alphas/bad boys and always end up leaving them for smart, hyper-literate, sarcastic SWPL herbs with media/writing jobs. they’re apparently unaware that they only get the ugly refuse of chicks, and if they ever manage to snag a cute girl, she’ll be the sloppy sow runoff that’s been pumped and dumped a gazillion times already.
Whiskey,
For someone who regularly trolls for middle-class white men/families, i’m baffeled that you do not support an NHS-type system.
Under the current system, middle-class Americans are burdened to death with everybody else’s healthcare costs (#1 cause of bankruptcy). Those without insurance pay inflated hospital fees to cover illegals. Those with insurance share the costs of the often upper-class, hypochondriac tard who wants an MRI – today!
And yes, healthcare “rationing” SHOULD happen. There is no reason for all of us to pay (through increased insurance premiums) for often ineffective, 10k a month cancer drugs for octogenarians or 1k a day to keep vegetables hooked up to machines. At the same time, our “private” healthcare system doesn’t think its worthwhile to help SWPL couples have a kid safely (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103270766).
Also, LOL at Canadian women crossing the border to give labor. American white womyns have higher infant morality rates than ANY Western European country see here (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/02/AR2007050201436.html) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate).
The woman known as ‘S’ is a 6 who writes about her experiences in Anal sex on her blog.
She is a 20 year old college student in philosophy (what career prospects she expects, god knows), who looks a fair deal older than 20.
Oops…forgot to say great post! Looking forward to your next one.
Roissy, I think you need to do a piece on the delta stewardess uniform controversy:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090710/ap_on_bi_ge/us_delta_air_lines_uniforms
Actually, I think you need to do a piece on flight attendnants. Why are American stewardesses so damn unattractive?
Why are American stewardesses so damn unattractive?
Airlines with Ugly Stewardess:
- Any US-based airline
- Lufthansa
- Air France (though I flew 1st class once and had a hot one)
- British Air
Airlines with so-so Stewardess:
- KLM
- SAS
Airlines with Hot Stewardess:
- FinnAir
Lexington Green
blockquote>”It is interesting that Roissy is virtually the only person making these sorts of world-explanatory arguments.”
No he actually isn’t, many others have written on this topic as well.
You might enjoy:
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/
http://ozconservative.blogspot.com/ ( my personal fave)
http://whatmenthinkofwomen.blogspot.com/
The problem here is the unlimited franchise.
Not one of the problems discussed here couldn’t be solved by simply limiting the franchise to “net taxpayers” in lieu of the white landowners that comprised the original cenceptual voting base. i am aware that there would be some difficulty in determining who constitutes a net taxpayer, but we make these statutory determinations all the time without too much agonizing (ie, random age of consent laws)
with a franchise limited to tax contribution there is no issue over race, gener, creed, even age. if a black, white, man, woman or 14 year old manages to become a net taxpayer, they get the vote and more power to them.
the notion that people who have absolutely no stake in maintaining a limited government can vote to expand it ad infinitum is ludicrous on it’s face. it is EXACTLY like allowing the lions and the zebras to both vote on how much zebra to eat tonight.
after clubbing you to death like the 200+ lb she-walrus that you are
[Willard Libby, on the "Beta of the Year Submissions" thread]
I am proud to take credit for creating the “she-[noun]” formation! I first did this when I wrote “she-lawyer” on this blog.
The English language kind of allows the feminization of a neutral noun by adding “-ess” (as in actress) or more quaintly, “-trix” as in “aviatrix” or “dominatrix,” to the end of the word. Alas, such a suffix is inadequate in exploiting the comical effect of feminizing an object that is normally understood to be masculine.
Hence my brilliant innovation, the prefix “she-”
@dana- i showed your post to my political scientist wife this morning, for what reason i don’t know, and she got a little bent out of shape. based on the well-known facts that (1) poor people vote less than rich or middle class people; income and education are the strongest determinants of voter turnout- and (2) most government transfers go to the middle class, and even the rich, not the very poor, who receive much less than the popular imagination holds. if you add up mortgage deductions, amortize police/safety/defense/local government, pile on those huge future social security payments, most taxpayers will receive more in benefits than they pay out over their lifetimes. only the super-rich, that pilloried 1% that controls 20% of the wealth, and some corporations, are net payers. so in effect, you’d go back to a plutocracy? this debate, politically and in theory, was settled 100 years ago.
also, poor people pay more taxes as a percent of their income, becase they earn wages that are easily withheld. rich people have earnings from investments, etc., which are taxed lighter or easily hid overseas. flat-taxes such as sales taxes also hit them harder.
the closest i’d ever want to go in this direction is a literacy test for voter registration. they used to exist in this country, mainly as a way for whites to keep poor blacks from voting in the south. but these days, with segregation not an issue, they could usefully be revived. the state provides a high-school edcuation and/or GED for free. citizenship and civic participation bring responsibilities as well as rights. there was actually a proposal i saw somewhere in some state, to the effect that drivers licenses could only be issued to kids with HS diplomas or GED. great idea – talk about an incentive.
also ..mmm… zebra…
Nova
It is certain that huge technological change, or devastating warfare, will radically alter our world. This is one reason I find the race talk to be a boring indulgence. Within a few decades genetic engineering and cyborg technology will make current racial divisions historic.
I am unable to grasp why people are unable to grasp that it is no longer possible to speculate about social trends. All bets are off. The world will change by technology or war – not feminism or monogamy.
@pa
You’ve not only got the instinct for creating language you’re a natural born poet!
http://roissy.wordpress.com/beta-of-the-year-contest-submissions/#comment-103884
maurice,
the problem is is that the US was not set up to have SO many people be so effected by government that their immediate enfranchisement mattered. a limited federal government of small scope that exists mostly to enforce rules against interpersonal violence and ensure private property rights doesnt REQUIRE many people voting in order to ensure a decent free life for those people.
democracy is overrated a la mencius moldbug. it’s actually largely irrelevant to our rights and prosperity. you could have any form of government and still have liberty and prosperity as long as it strictly enforced private property rights and had a stable and predictable rule of law.
the expansion of government into everyones lives attended the expansion of the franchise as more and more groups with no stake in limited government and free enterprise were allowed to vote their interests and be courted in blocs. i would abolish all those schemes that have caused our “middle” class to receive federal benefits.
its not about class and income–its about people having a stake in limited government and free market. no one who get’s a tax refund is really paying “income taxes” from what i understand. i could absolutely be wrong. this would leave out most people who aren’t in business, basically.
many many many women and female dominated
households in the US are “middle class”and higher but the women work in bureaucracries and non business.
think about whole tiers of “middle income” pink collar jobs that wouldn’t exist in SOME way without government–1st off obv, teachers then there are vast numbers of government workers in a million areas, social workers, court personnel, case workers on and on. how many women and female dominated house holds are net taxpayers under that definition? i bet you very few.
no government worker is a taxpayer. they are tax shufflers–tax money goes in, tax money comes out–no wealth is created.
the other big sector of female “work” is administering “benefits”, affirmative action and anti discrimination laws for companies. this is called human resources. while it is not a tax consuming activity–it’s existence as a tier of jobs rests on the existence of complex and arcane government schemes that i think most of us agree should cease to exist.
the main problem i’ve come up against is the military–while they are certainly paid by the government i think the nature of their role and service would probably entitle them to the vote–i would have to hash that out more.
For anyone who is interested, I’ve written a comprehensive post on Game, IQ, and human biodiversity.
Game and High-IQ
oh oh, lest i forget–the elderly
after SS and medicare sets in, no vote
until they allow means testing for entitlements no one who gets them can vote
oh goody sdtv, now the big mouthed groid can invade your comments section and tell all the white boys to give up because all their women prefer black guys
Good Morning people,
Well, I don’t do buttplugs, and I don’t find the kind of humor some find here to be my liking, so I won’t be writing like that; can’t please errbody.
But I don’t anyone who get down like that. To each his own.
Captain Napalm, again I don’t have any problem in the least w/how business is done in America. My problem again, is in how so many White folks aren’t willing to be honest about it-in fact, to the extent that any such “anti white” sentiment exists among Blacks, its the sneaky, underhanded and milquetoat way so many Whites do their ish. Just be a Man and simply say that you don’t wanna hire Blacks, period-its got nothing to do w/”kbeing qualified”, looking or sound “right”, etc. Its simply the factb that its yoour business, and you reserve the right to hire and fire for any reason you choose. Don’t be surprised how many Black folk will actually respect such a Man, or Woman. They’ll also despise and hate your hates, but they’ll respect you.
Having run a few businesses in my life, believe me, I know all about the importance of having qualified people. I also know the realities of what we call The Hookup-nepotism, and it is rampant in White Male America. Again, that’s cool, I have no problem with it, and actually it can have some benefits. But again, let’s be brutally honest here, and that’s why so many Black folk have an axe to grind against some Whites.
I learned that in business you can’t also be an ideologue-cant serve two masters. You either wanna maximize profits, or you wanna make a point and remain comfortable. And see, in the businesses I ran, if you don’t produce, you don’t eat. So I was very results-driven. And I did whatever it took to meet my sales or production goals because, simply put, I like to eat.
So I hired any and errbody who could do the job-and guess what, the people who were the biggest slackers? Yup, you guessed it, WHITE PEOPLE. The people who had the most hustle to make the sale, were guys off the corner slingin’ rock who wanted to go legit before they either got locked up or killed-and guess what, White customers LOVED EM, because these guys really wanted it. Like me.
So, on mo gin: I got no problem w/the idea of unqualified Black folks. I just don’t buy that err single White person you see on the job is to the teeth qualified, either. My own direct experience, so many times in so many different jobs, tells me otherwise.
O
why don’t you say “alpha” one more time, pal.
“Not only is Obama utterly pussywhipped when it comes to his wife…he’s a complete and total tool for the femi-nazi’s.
”
Of course he is – they voted for him, not out of altruism or “hope” but out of protecting their interests INSTEAD of those of men. Feminist groups are organized and ruthless, both of which their opposition is not, and this is why we find ourselves in the position we are in.
If I were president, feminist leaders would be dragged into jail and raped.
@dana,
by that definition, Dana, your eligible voters would be primarily low income, because that’s where the balk of personal violence is found.
what?
Pawning off black race hatred on whitey; how cute. Funny how everything which is grudgingly admitted is the fault of those damn crackas, while everything which is happily proclaimed is a 100% black only achievement.
There are lazy white people?!?!? OMGz! Call the press! This is a brand new revelation which Obsidian brings! And you hired them. Which would normally make it your fault, but I’m sure those damn underhanded crackas made you do it.
Telling that the notion of trying to become friends with whites with the same interests is a non-starter with you. Not even on the table, eh?
@obs,
your comment above re: black vrs. white in sales
you are comparing hustle (motivation) with qualification. My experience agrees with you in this realm: black prisoners fromt the city jail are admirable in smarts and hustle. They’re their primarily for hustling drugs. The white prisoners from the county jail are a soft pathetic lot. not sure what they’re jailed for but , it’s not drug related.
@obs,
what i’m saying is that the selected subgroup of black men with drug-running backgrounds are a ambitious smart group.
In contrast, the subgroup of black men choosen for the construction training site are an unmotivated group, who eventually drop out.
no one cares if inexperienced or inept blacks are hired, they care that the government FORCES businesses to hire them
if i own a biz and hire my retarded nephew to run it that’s MY choice because it’s MY business. if i own a business and i am forced to hire people i don’t want to hire and can’t even use the hiring qualifications *I* choose to because they are against the law that’s a different matter.
@maurice,
Let me we accept everything you state in your first paragraph above. Yet , it is also true that only 43% of US citizen pay any income tax at all, and that we are approaching the tipping point where we have more nonpayers than payers.
Arpagus,
You still owe us a blow-by-blow detailed account of your latest score. It is more useful to trace what goes WELL than to re-hash the decline of the West, however much we all love it.
Thanks a lot Vladimir.
50% of single white women vote for Obama. The number is incredibly high though but nothing like the +70% figure Roissy presented for all women.
This only say that women are too lose. They need a man to direct them. We should have known better.
Vladimir, you have no idea how hard I searched for those statistics. And let me say that I was surprised it was not more than half of the unmaried white women who voted for Obama.
I sat on the commuter train going home recently, and enjoyed a rare treat: sitting next to an attractive young woman. She started a conversation with me, and I quickly got the skinny on her: a Flyover naif, just done with graduate school, come to the big city to seek a more exciting life.
She was around 25, brainy and somewhat nerdy looking, blonde and lanky like a young Darryl Hannah. An 8, I’d say. Something about her, maybe her small-town naivetee, maybe her undiscovered inner slut, made me really wanna nail her.
(Note, I’m married so I wouldn’t actually try to close any kind of deal with her)
Her “undiscovered slut” is a quality I picked up on from conversation. She came across as a good girl, but only by custom. She didn’t conciously know this yet, but having moved to the Big City was the beginning of a long, exciting ride on the alpha cock-carousel.
She said how much she loves to travel (thanks, Roissy, for your many wise observations over time), and back in her flyover state she had a romance with an immigrant laborer bad-boy Slav.
So that’s the background I gleaned from our conversation. A nice girl, all in all, and may she ramain so despite the odds.
Anyway — this is where my reading of this blog bore one of its fruits. I ran thermonuclear game on her. Better game than I had in my single days, when I was a novice practitioner of the Crimson Arts.
Again, not to close any kind of a deal, but just for fun. And it really did feel good. Examples of what I did:
- when her arm pressed against mine early on, I did not “politely” shift out of her way. I let myself enjoy the touch of a strange young pretty girl.
- she started off talking “professional stuff” with me. her nascent career, plus what I do, which was prompted by the fact that at first I had some work stuff I was reading. I gently but firmly redirected the conversation along this trajectory:
(1) glossed over any talk about what I do by shifting the topic to what she does. You know, work is boring and I wanna maintain the mystery as to my person.
(2) I glided over what she does, a relatively professional line of work, with due interest but without lingering too long on this; the idea was to treat her like a silly little girl, not like a Professional Woman who must be Respected.
(3) I deftly moved the convo to personal topics regarding herself. Soon enough, got her talking about love, her ideas and ideals on love, her past disappointments in love, and how today is the begining of a new exciting life for her (keeping things positive).
- I did about 15% percent of the talking, mostly asking her leading questions or making sagely one-line comments on her revelations. My attitude was “talk to her pussy, not to her mind.”
- There was unmistakeable kino escalation. I let her press her arm against mine, at one point she pressed her hip toward the back of my nand. She touched my hand once durning the ride.
- I deployed one of my natural assets: the “nice eyes” girls always told me I have. Strong, smiling eye contact with an understated sensuousness. Her eyes were ligthing up when we looked at each other.
- toward the end of out chat (the train was almot at my station) she was on fire, blushing, looking at me, talking with that mix of shyness and excitement. My dick, at that point, was ready to burst out of my pants. There was precum seepage.
Anyway, a little rundown on Game for your enjoyment folks. And I realized two things:
My power over poon is huge. Scary-huge, frighteningly powerful, much more so since I said goodbye to singlehood.
My second realization, having just run “by the book” Game while consciously aware of what I’m doing:
Game is for Real
It is ending, and a lot faster than any want to admit. Male unemployment is north of 10% and rising. There is no huge pot of wealth to tax, there are only incomes, which for males are heading in the wrong direction. Even the most whipped of betas CAN’T pay when there is nothing coming in. Feeling stimulated yet? How many of you think those UAW workers are ever going to get jobs that paid anywhere near what they used to make? Governments can inflate their way out of debt, for a while by printing more colored paper, but the Chinese are unlikely to tolerate much of that.
So, Uncle Sugar is not going to be able to deliver the goodies much longer. What group gets shafted? Blacks, women, or union (government) workers? I’ll ignore the possibility of betas revolting, because that isn’t happening.
Too bad, kids. You trusted us boomers. Promises are cheap. Obama’s got your credit card, and it’s close to maxed. I don’t admire Roissy’s morals, but he’s correct. For any of you who are students of history, the parallel with Weimar Germany is a little too close for comfort. Unsustainable debt, loose morals, unemployment…
dana said:
Now come, come, after the English/American Aristocrats ‘fixed’ Democratic government early this century, Democracy has done EXACTLY what it was supposed to do. And that is transfer vast sums of money to the wealthy while blaming the people for the disasters created by the wealthy.
I know! I know! Democracy OPPRESSES the wealthy! That’s why America has the most wealthy people in the world!
They is OPPRESSED.
I thank OneSTDV for his most recent blogpost that was prompted by my musings on Right Enders, IQ & Game, but I think he, as per usual, seems to have missed the point.
While what he says is true about Newton, Salk and others looking out for their “extended family”, ie Whites by way of their intellectual acumen and by essentially giving up some or all of their own reproductive fitness, he misses out on the key point, that A, we no longer live in a time when such sacrifices are sought *or appreciated*, and B, that the meaning of INDIVIDAL HAPPINESS has immense cache in our time. Simply put, the reason why PUA seminars, bootcamps and blogs like these are packed to the gills w/today’s Newtons, Salks and Watsons is becaue they too want to participate in the Poonfest that has been going on in the West for easily the past few decades now. If One’s theory is so legit, I invite him to give the same speech to a bunch of IT guys at the next bootcamp and report back the results of the overwhelming numbers of said guys willing to basically wind up like Dave Alex for the rest of their lives.
I’d love to see that post.
Lastly, I want to stress the fact that I do not have a particular axe to grind w/the basic premise of HBD; but rather, I do have serious axe to grind w/the motivations of some of its loudest cheerleaders. We need to be brutally clear-they are not dispassionate amatuer scientists, investigating the veracity of real differences between the races-these are people who wish to use HBD as a means to discredit those who they deem are unfairly vilifying them and their kind. Hence, the HBD movement isn’t scientific as much as it is political, they just don’t say as much outright. They need to put all their cards on the table, so people can take what they say, like any and everything else in life, with a grain of salt.
O
A few comments earlier I wrote: “She didn’t conciously know this yet, but having moved to the Big City was the beginning of a long, exciting ride on the alpha cock-carousel.”
I’d like to add that the exciting ride on the alpha cock carousel really amounts to a whole lot of pleasure and a whole lot of tears for the girl. Just listen to any girl whose heart had been broken by a bad-boy alpha talk about how much she ended up getting hurt by him.
Lisa Lisa and the Cult Jam said it best back in 1989:
Though my contact with “Daryl Hannah” above was limited to my having seared a massive impression in the reptilian pars of her psyche, I neverthelless ruined her for the next five betas who will try to approach her with Suplication Game.
This is why, to save civilization, civilized men must learn Game. Own the reptile.
I understand your point fully. However, it relies upon an elegance of thought no longer valued in PC/AA government hiring.
Government is the current leader in hiring – it’s ranks swelling every day. The hirees, are not Mom, Apple Pie, God and country types.
They are the types you see behind the counter at the DMV.
Clinton was aided immeasurably by covert government types when he bombed an aspirin factory to Weapons of Mass Distraction himself away from dwindling public scrutiny of awesome, full-lipped Monica bjs.
Even American Blacks gave him a pass fo bombing tha MuthaLand
If HBD is “science” at all then the motivations of its proponents are irrelevant. In science, either something is true or it isn’t, regardless of whether the scientist has “bad” or “good” motives. If a scientist with “bad” motivations says something is true, then these results can be tested and proven or disproven by someone with different motivations. The results will speak for themselves regardless of the motives of the people testing them.
The role of the mass-media and the people who own and control it (Jews) needs to be mentioned. Jews obviously own and control the programming in at least 90+% of America’s mass-media, and thus they are the ones who have been filling the heads of America’s women with all of the poison mentioned here: the hyperconsumerist attitudes (“shop till ya drop!”), the constant lusting after bad-boys as is found on all of those female TV channels (Lifetime, Oxygen, etc), the desired ‘freedom’ from having to worry about family concerns or child-rearing, the faux egalitarianism for Blacks/Hispanics/one-eyed dwarf handicapped lesbians/etc, the wanting of a ‘worldly’ education and a ‘hip job’ in some soulless urban area where they live superficial lives of decadence and unconstrained sexuality, and so forth.
Again: it has been America’s Jewish community, the urban far-leftist Jews who own and control America’s mass-media, who have been filling the heads of America’s women with all of this poisonous nonsense. Thus one day they shall have to be brought to justice for their role in undermining and corrupting America’s White women.
Lady Raine
You stupid fucktard.
He’s calling for the end of government created and rigorously enforced provisions which give American women today a wholly marriage and oftentimes marrying man destroying massive edge in family law matters. And even an edge in employment. He’s calling for an end to government mandated subsidization of divorcing women by their unwilling husbands. You’re the one that wants the enormous and pathetic government edge, favoring women, to continue. Stupid fucktard.
I wholly endorse every single thing Welmer said in that post you’re referring to and zero of what you said. This excellent post of Welmer’s:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/why-there-is-a-gender-gap/#comment-103746
Alimony is outrageous when 60% of law school students are women and you work in a computer driven tool and die shop. Alimony is outrageous when women can work and at high levels, if they’re qualifed. If they aren’t it’s their fault. If they “didn’t work because their husband didn’t want them to” they 1) are mostly lying, they didn’t want to and would have worked if they did, and no husband could stop them in today’s America; and 2) should have made the marriage work or chosen more wisely then, oh well, lower standard of living or find another male provider; or 3) will have to live on a lower standard of living now that they are no longer providing wifely services to their husband.
Affirmative Action for women is an outrageous pathetic edge for women. Affirmative action in all of it’s forms, and efforts, and diversity mandates.
State mandated and extracted child support should be ended. Instead men should take care of their children as their parental feelings dictate. Fewer divorces, and more careful choosing of fathers for dad qualities would result, as in, you know, much of history.
If women want their children taken care of, they should enter into private deals with men so that they will be. And then either stay in those deals or enter into new ones with another man. Those deals have usually been called marriages. Or today other cohabitation arrangements, given how utterly man exploitative marriage is today — as soon as a woman wants to end one, or threaten to and then bring the state screwing of men in family law down upon him.
No child support without man support. The father of the children hopefully. Or a replacement. And/or she can leave a man with a voluntary agreement of what he’ll do to help support his children. She can choose her bio dads with a view to his being a voluntarily good supporting dad as well. Like you know, how it was always done, for the most part, in history. Instead of the feminist indentured servitude of feminist 40% plus of a man’s after tax income up to endless levels for 2 kids, after she decides to end the marriage.
The no evidence much less a full hearing DV restraining orders that now regularly force men out of their homes when a wife commences divorce proceedings are outrageous. HOW DARE you call Welmer’s calling for an end to that “maintaining a pathetic edge”?
How dare you call any of what he called for that. You women’s outrageous edge supporter.
You borderline sociopathic utterly self absorbed stupid fucktard.
Got to love the kino. Shit is fun. Way to go and not fuck it makes you strong I think especially if you keep with your intent of your life. When you can fuck but choose not to vs never having the opportunity and never having to choose.
do you come in “extra tight” size for Obsidian and KassyK?
The no evidence much less a full hearing DV restraining orders that now regularly force men out of their homes
One time many years ago when I was arrested for something (it was nothing that would paint me as a person of low regard) and the cops at the station were done booking me and asked me to sit down on the bench for a few minutes, there was a woman who come in and make a complaint about her husband with whom she was going through separation.
She said that he grabbed her by the wrist outside of the bank where she was going in to make a withdrawal. She added that it was very painful and asked if they can arrest him for battery.
Re: Betas wanting to join the public poonfest.
Yes indeed, this is the key fact. In a more conservative/traditional world the whole subject of pick up skills would be a non-starter simply because no one sees any picking up going on. Until very recently, what is currently normal in the dating scene would have been stigmatized as extreme sluttiness. Our current scene is unprecedented.
Something that women seem resistant to understanding is that the sexual choices displayed by hot young women is the biggest force in human affairs. No priority for straight guys is higher than being on the right side of that deal.
In other words, in former times guys generally assumed they were not missing out on a lot of free-range sex because either it was not happening or because it was out of sight. Celibacy, therefore was bearable and there was a belief that in time the poon would come in the natural course of getting older & more accomplished.
That is one thing.
When guys see and know that there is a whole lotta shakin goin on, but not with them and not with the kind of guy that they are growing into, that is quite another.
Deep, deep water, folks.
”””’Anony,
choosen”””””
No one is allowed to mispell chosen except me. Don’t let me in your head lol
They are the types you see behind the counter at the DMV.
There are (friendly and competent) white employees at my DMV. Maybe your DMV should pay better to attract white employees.
Yea rum even look at leaders of men in top positions. When they can’t excercise there right to get all the poon they want even if it is available because it fucks up there job. That is wild stuff.
BTW it should be noted that betas are outreproducing alphas in our society by quite a bit. By far the most fertile group of men are those with only one lifetime sex partner. I would guess that a lot of them are religious, but not all of them. Alphas sure are fucking alot, but it’s actually betas that are inheriting the earth. The future is looking more and more alphaless.
White Survival Dude.
You must be new here. Women do not need to be instructed to want the type of sexual partners that they do. It is just nature. It is no different than guys liking fine T&A. Are you going to blame that on the media as well?
A basic problem with anti-semitism is that Jews are invariably being damaged by the things that folks like you would accuse them of causing.
Family breakdown and multiculturalism has hit American Jews harder than any other group if you consider that intermarriage outside of the tribe is an existential threat to ethnic survival – especially if you are a tiny minority. Intermarriage rates have been around 50% for several decades.
”””””””””””Firepower
whiskey wrote:
Firepower — Rest assured the CIA bureaucrats who made life miserable for GWB will make life equally miserable for Pelosi and Obama. … and then produce all sorts of memos, briefs, statements, and other things putting the blame squarely on Pelosi AND Obama.
I understand your point fully. However, it relies upon an elegance of thought no longer valued in PC/AA government hiring.
Government is the current leader in hiring – it’s ranks swelling every day. The hirees, are not Mom, Apple Pie, God and country types.
They are the types you see behind the counter at the DMV.
”””””””””””’
And that is gonna be changing also for the ms degree types that think they and their children are gonna be just fine and that they have nothing to protect. Except when the other guy gets in charge they don’t have that same feeling. They hire all of one type of people. I see it happen on a daily basis. Just like before the white dudes where like yea hire scws well now there are no white dudes hardley he he he
I have seen this play out in a microcosm although bigger than a petri dish.
Arrakis: “I know you’ve been up here before (I remember you enjoying a trip to Toronto a while ago). Shouldn’t a more liberal country like ours be decaying at a faster rate?”
You aren’t taking in to account the critical factor of race/ethnicity. Canada isn’t rapidly decaying or falling apart under socialism/liberalism because that country remains overwhelmingly White.
Socialism/liberalism is entirely tolerable and workable as long as a nation is almost totally ethnically/racially homogeneous, either in Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. Actually, socialism/liberalism is preferred in nations that are ethnically/racially homogeneous (or nearly so) because then that government charity/assistance will be going to support people who are literally related to you in an ethnic/racial sense. Note the following words carefully and always remember them: socialism can only succeed in nations that are ethnically/racially homogeneous – and socialism will always fail in very multiracial/multiethnic countries.
However, once the ethnic/racial makeup of a country starts to become too skewed toward non-Whites as is currently happening in the USA, the country can no longer support socialistic/liberal policies and thus starts to decay and fall apart.
Family breakdown and multiculturalism has hit American Jews harder than any other group if you consider that intermarriage outside of the tribe is an existential threat to ethnic survival – especially if you are a tiny minority.
I’ve alleged that the high intermarriage rate is actually how they stay a tiny minority. They dump their “low” IQ on gentiles, while soaking up our “high” IQ women and getting them to convert or have their kids adopt a Jewish identity.
Thursday the future is looking like your whole life will already be decided from cradle to grave. Might as well not even live it then.
I agree
write them a letter,
tell us how that works out
Yea with all the talk of the jews but if they where really totally like that it means their lives are already decided from cradle to grave. I kind of feel bad for them if that is the case.
No dave it isn’t pay it is simply whites not getting hired. You do understand that when you put the application in they ask you if your white or black or whatever for a reason right.
I still say all white people need to start putting black on there applications for all employment.
until people – posters here, included – actually spend some time in a State or Federal gov’t building they have no fucking clue.
Take a stroll around the facility. Look in the breakrooms. Find the covert, outdoor smoking cubbyholes.
It’s like an old “Bernie Mac” stand-up special on Comedy Central
For Left Coasters – substitute Bernie for Carlos Mencia.
you’ll never change government by just replacing the ass-kissing douche bag bureaucrat appointees at the top.
Rum,
The feminists already have a reply to that one, it’s called “male entitlement” (cf. hugoschwyzer.net, Pandagon, I Blame the Patriarchy, Feminist Fred) and men who don’t make the cut need to get used to Life Without. Men like Arpagus, DA, and me are the endgame. I don’t actually see *anyone* introspective enough to be like the contributors here actually becoming a predator, but it’s nice to theorize.
And most jobs do not require some big brain. Once the original people put a system in place. Then you just have to follow that system. So yea no big whoop do not have to be a rocket scientist to create shit. Most jobs you are just going through the motions each day.
Isn’t that pretty much what Section 8 housing is?
No, Section 8 is really a transfer of housing responsibilities from local governments to private landlords which allowed the government to escape the business of owning and maintaining homes. The real problem with Section 8 is that it’s expansion was based on the Gautreaux Project in the 1970s where a select number of project residents were given housing vouchers to find housing in the private market with results finding that suburban participants were able to leave welfare, find jobs, and have children who became successful as well while urban participants followed underclass norms. The transition to Section 8 failed because the Gautreaux Project participants were heavily screened via background checks and only a small number were allowed to move into each community to avoid inducing white flight.
BTW, Section 8 also causes issues in black working and middle class areas. My mother’s friend lives next to a Section 8 recipient who annoys her with loud music, screaming, fights, and poor property maintenance.
Why are American stewardesses so damn unattractive?
Unionization basically means that American flight attendents work as career, so you’ll find older women who have been working for nearly ten to fifteen years, and pretty girls in America have much better and easier options for meeting hot guys. Plus, thanks to declining pay, the younger ones tend to be of slightly lower class ranks than their previous generation. In contrast, for certain areas of Europe and Asia, being an FA is the best way to meet foriegners (read: men) with money and some degree of influence and power or at minimum have access to the alpha cock carousel.
She was around 25, brainy and somewhat nerdy looking, blonde and lanky like a young Darryl Hannah
I fail to see the “attraction”.
Why it is also funny that the people who can’t be replaced as easy are the people in the trades (electrician, generator mechanic, mechanic for vehicles heavy equipment trucks) because not everyone can do it and it actually takes a brain. The office jobs are the ones where you can take someone off the street and they can do the repedative shit. Ironies of life never cease. Enyone who works in the trades can step into an office and do the work. I have seen it I have done it.
No dave it isn’t pay it is simply whites not getting hired. You do understand that when you put the application in they ask you if your white or black or whatever for a reason right.
Of course, but if you want more white people to apply for something in order to swamp out the black applicants, you’re going to have to pay more.
BTW, you do know that my DMV is located in New York, and the employees were 90% white, right…
do even better.
go for The Gold
check the “Native-American” quota box. I’m not exaggerating – try this. It’s for real. funny, how no “investigative” reporter can think of this stuff.
but, you’ll need to prove your Racial Purity – how much “percentage” Injun you are to give an equal weight as to how much percentage you jump over every other special interest race group – including Transgendered Handicapped Veteran Brothas.
It’s like Jim Crow in reverse – like Hitler’s Nazi Germany in reverse where you had to prove your blood was such-and-such percentage Aryan.
Now that’s Amerikkka
Oh shit fire you are on fire.
Yea fuck native american whose gonna say your not.
I remember when I applies for my house loan and they gave me spiel about they don’t discriminate based on anything. Then the chick asked me if I was native american. I started laughing and had to bust on her.
he just did that
to help the
handicapped
funzover – stacydash wants a chewtoy
Yea I am politically incorrect whereveer I may roam. he he he
Yea I was about to remove my free money but then realized roosh still had hist forum. So I kept it. Plus I can’t remember who the fuck I am paying to cancel that shit lol
If I can help rossh get one point five fucks a month then I have done my good deed for the month for my fellow man. he he he
there’s a whole Indian Gestapo Government regulated system out there verifying the 21st century American version of “Racial Purity Laws” ala Nazi Germany.
the rewards are soooo fucking lucrative bc of the SPECIAL BENEFITS injuns get, it’s like a jew claiming to be Aryan in 1938.
You actually need to be a “member of a recognized indian tribe” like being a member of Das Party int zer gut standink.
The
Fascist Partytribe will scupulously check to verify your ancestors’ birth certificates, names on 19th century treaties, reservation roll-calls — before you get the benefits.State and Federal government use these
fascistindian organizations to vet all checking that little golden box.go try it. see for yourself. it’s impossible
@firepower – “funzover – stacydash wants a chewtoy”
Ya she looks hungry.
http://www.hubbawheels.com/go/uploaded_images/stacey-dash1-770256.jpg
I am going to repeat this often :
Anyone who thinks alimony is justified in this day and age is effectively admitting that women are INFERIOR, I repeat, INFERIOR to men. If women are equal, they do not deserve alimony. If they deserve alimony, they are inferior.
Any woman here care to lock horns with me on this? If you do, try to avoid your typical ‘anecdotes as proof’ strategy.
“has given us the pinnacle of civilization in the West ”
HAHAHAHAHA
The West’s “pinnacle” is little in comparison to the great Asian civilizations, it lasted for maybe a couple centuries at most, was well in the process of dying before the sixties (which was just the beginning of the ugly external manifestation of a death that had already set in). Asia is rising again and knows how to maintain itself. The basic structure to the old world order is being restored.
“I am going to repeat this often :
Anyone who thinks alimony is justified in this day and age is effectively admitting that women are INFERIOR, I repeat, INFERIOR to men. If women are equal, they do not deserve alimony. If they deserve alimony, they are inferior.”
That maybe true, but really, at the end of the day, the woman has used a particular means to suck the wealth out of the man…so it can be argued that the woman is superior as she is able to take his money with nary a fight.
Its the same things with Welfare.
@Todd,
A man and wife enter a marriage. Over the course of the marriage, one of them (either gender) sacrifices direct income, networking opportunities, continuing education opportunities, retirement benefits, full vestment, promotions, and endures unfavorable geographic relocations. The marriage dissolves. How would you regard the one who made the sacrifices?
Asia is rising again and knows how to maintain itself. The basic structure to the old world order is being restored.
Not really. Asian countries have very low birth rates (Japan, Taiwan, South Korea). Much lower than the US, in fact.
China, too, is dropping in birth rate, and will be below replacement level before it is even developed.
India is the only one where birth rate, while dropping, will still stay above replacement for a long time. But India has a long way to go before full development too.
So the US is more sustainable than East Asian countries. The US is also more sustainable that European countries.
The US is still the most durable country in the world. Once the feminist bubble pops (by 2020), things will improve again.
I’m your huckleberry,
But woman gave you their pussy now you gotta pay. You got the lovin now you do the payin.
anony,
Bullshit. A woman who ’sacrifices’ is just lazy and wants to mooch off her provider. See what doug1 wrote earlier.
‘If the marriage dissolves’? Ha! Look at how women avoid responsibility for their actions. It is the WOMAN who initiates divorce in 90% of the cases, and she initiates only because she is going to get alimony. No alimony = the woman will stop trying to be a leech, and won’t seek to ‘dissolve the marriage’.
You would not take your stand if men were benefiting 50% of the time. You know full well that women are benefiting 90% of the time, hence your euphemisms and hypotheticals.
Your jig will soon be up. The backlash against feminism will be severe.
Alimony = Women are Inferior. Admit it.
””””””””anony
@Todd,
A man and wife enter a marriage. Over the course of the marriage, one of them (either gender) sacrifices direct income, networking opportunities, continuing education opportunities, retirement benefits, full vestment, promotions, and endures unfavorable geographic relocations. The marriage dissolves. How would you regard the one who made the sacrifices?”””””””””””””
Yea the one who didn’t work should now go to work and pay the one who did for having a chill life.
@Todd,
Interesting, but you didn’t answer the question. Would you regard the sacrificed as just “sol”?
Hell no I would regard the one who sacrificed ie woke up every day to go to work as the one who now needs to get alimony. The one who stayed home and relaxed now needs to go find a job so the one who has been working the whole time can relax.
@guns and todd,
OKay, I’ll follow your lead. Now, where is the incentive for anyone to sacrifice for any endevor other than self-enrichment?
Anony
I did answer the question. You did not like the answer, because you want to legitimize female parasitism.
Being a fat lazy harpy who sits at home and watches Oprah while the husband is working is not ’sacrifice’. The one who works to support BOTH of them is the one who sacrifices.
Women want to be parasites. Alimony is an admission of the fact that women are inferior in both economic and moral measures.
When the backlash against women happens (through a combination of Islam, VR sex technology, men learning Game, and random violence against women), you will see that feminists went too far…..
”””””””anony
@guns and todd,
OKay, I’ll follow your lead. Now, where is the incentive for anyone to sacrifice for any endevor other than self-enrichment?””””””””
Have kids is selfish it is self enrichment not a sacrifice. Like when I enroll my adopted son in some mma fighting classes after teaching him some shit. It is gonna make me feel cool if he can beat the other kids asses. Now that is selfish.
OKay, I’ll follow your lead. Now, where is the incentive for anyone to sacrifice for any endevor other than self-enrichment?
Men have been sacrificing for women for ever. Men are happy to make the sacrifice of giving up the world of single women to commit to one woman.
But when feminists made it easy for women to steal everything the man earned with no burden of justification, feminists went to far. Feminists will court a devastating backlash, the likes of which women can’t really comprehend.
If your stupid example of a woman ’sacrificing’ by not working justifies alimony, then at least alimony should require a burden of proof. One cannot have “no fault alimony’.
So which do you choose? No fault divorce with no alimony, or alimony that requires stringent justification?
No fault alimony is grossly unfair. That women cannot admit this proves their parasitic objectives (and is an admission of inferiority).
anony, there was no sacrifice. There was a commitment made to the household. In the given arrangement, you mentioned nothing about having kids. So one staying at home was simply for keeping the house clean and there being a cooked meal, one presumes. In exchange for such minimalistic effort, there was a pretty remarkable imbalance between what was given and what was gotten entirely in the favor of the one who stayed at home.
So, in fairness, if the one who was at home wants to leave, that one must get a job and support the other one at the exact same level of comfort for just as minimalistic an amount of effort for the same length of time. Only fair, right?
“he feminists already have a reply to that one, it’s called “male entitlement” (cf. hugoschwyzer.net, Pandagon, I Blame the Patriarchy, Feminist Fred) and men who don’t make the cut need to get used to Life Without.”
@Eurosabra –
Exactly. The attitude of feminists is that most men need to get over it and accept that they are not going to be men most women are interested in. After all they are not “entitled” to mate.
What you see there is the female sexual strategy run amok — which is, in its core, what feminism is all about. Without a counterbalance to it, you get one sex’s strategy careening forward unchecked.
The one silver lining is that, as Thursday rightly points out, there are quite a few betas who are reproducing quite nicely. Many of them are religious, but as he says not all are. The alphas are the ones who are pumping and dumping and not reproducing, so they are actually *losing* the evolutionary game, in a rather ironic way.
””””””””anony
@guns and todd,
OKay, I’ll follow your lead. Now, where is the incentive for anyone to sacrifice for any endevor other than self-enrichment?”””””””””””””’
There is a situation like that where normally the guy will sacrifice his life to work so his woman can stay home and relax. Now after he does that for a while yea they should be forced to switch places and the woman can now get a job and pay the guy for his sacrifice.
Anony
I find it fascinating that the only “sacrifice” your eyes can see are the ones made by the SAH mom. Part of that is feminist indoctrination that confuses “having a career” with “having to earn money.” The other part is most likely pure narcicism.
And keep this in mind. Single guys can get along fine without what a wifey contributes. Housework per se is ridiculously easy to outsource. Cooking? Who eats at home anyway?
Sex? You are kidding, right?
””””””’cptNapalm,
So, in fairness, if the one who was at home wants to leave, that one must get a job and support the other one at the exact same level of comfort for just as minimalistic an amount of effort for the same length of time. Only fair, right?””””””””””””””””””
That is correct it is reversed of what it should be just another irony of life.
The guy is supposed to feel lucky that he got to do all the fun shit like have a career and get told what the fuck to do and be under threat of being fired and sometimes having to deal with stupid people all day.
Keep em coming anon your input is appreciated
Women should be weighted in the day of marriage. And if in the day in which divorce was asked, by either partner, then both partners should be weighted again
anyone who had gained more than 20% of extra weight should be treated like an adulterer.
Note that anony (who is someone who admitted that she supports cuckolding) believes that alimony should not even have a stringent burden of justification applied to it.
She believes alimony should be ‘no fault’.
Hence, feminists are sowing the seeds of their own destruction.
Question for anony :
Since more and more men are wising up to this scam, they are seeking pre-nups before entering into marriage. What is your reaction to the growing trend of men seeking pre-nups?
Now when you have a woman at home who is the bomb yea no one needs to make you sacrifice to make her ok because you do it automatically. No government intervention needed. Good woman will get taken care of the free market at work.
MarkD: “For any of you who are students of history, the parallel with Weimar Germany is a little too close for comfort. Unsustainable debt, loose morals, unemployment…”
Yes, exactly. I for one cannot wait for the inevitable anti-Jewish paroxysm to erupt amongst American Whites just as it did in the late-Weimar period which led directly to the rise of the NSDAP – because just as it was in Weimar Germany, the insidious role of mass-media and international finance Jewry in the current collapse of White America cannot be denied.
History has proven time and time again that Jews are like termites which slowly undermine and decimate any and all ’structures’ (cultures, civilizations, etc) that they are able to infest. Thus it is the duty of every person who cares about a brighter future to vigorously oppose them.
anony is clearly a men-hater. gender-hatred is caused by sexual frustration. the dynamics work like that:
suffrage empowers women. a sub-group among women called ” unnattractive” or simply women whose sense of entitlement does not match her sexual market value organyzes itself out of pure sexual frustration.
other women hear the feminist discourse and realize they have only benefits it those ideas are applied. Betas are still chivalrous and alphas are above all that so both let it go.
and then we have the subprime collapse, then the fiscal collapse, then the dawn of the new Islamic Order
Good thing I already went muslim then isn’t it gig he he he
One thing about women is that they accept whatever status quo exists in the world they live in. They have no ability to predict shifting winds, or prepare for societal changes.
Right after 9/11, when Americans were exposed to the subjugation of women in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, I could not help but notice that it was American MEN who were pounding the table about oppression of burka’ed women. American single women didn’t seem to care one bit about the plight of women under the Taliban, even though these SWPL women are the ones who benefit the most from American society vs. Islamic society.
I never see SWPL women wanting to protect womens rights in the Islamic world. Similarly, I never see Islamic women trying to escape to the West.
Conclusion : Women like to live in their own bubbles, and be unaware of the outside world.
Thus, just as the 4 horsemen (the pill, no fault divorce, etc.) gave women power and created the feminist-dominated society we have today, many average women are being hurt, but they simply will not challenge the status quo.
The 4 horsemen of Male Vengeace will soon be upon us, swinging the pendulum back our way. These 4 horsemen are :
1) Increasing Islamic immigration into the West
2) Sex technologies for the Beta (3-D/VR sex and sexbots). Anyone who says this cannot replace a real woman has to also note that the virtual woman will be a 10, while the real world options for the man might just be 5s or 6s. So it is a virtual 10 competing with real 5s. The real 5s lose.
3) More men learning Game
4) More lower-income men getting disenfranchised, and banding together to take things by force (usually from women).
Of course, women lack the vision to anticipate these 4 simultaneous forces that will topple the feminist utopia by 2020. Women accept the status quo now, they will accept the new status quo then.
Here’s to the Muslims, who currently keep their women in line.
but in yours neighborhood, who wouldn’t?
betas?
gig,
suffrage empowers women. a sub-group among women called ” unnattractive” or simply women whose sense of entitlement does not match her sexual market value organyzes itself out of pure sexual frustration.
other women hear the feminist discourse and realize they have only benefits it those ideas are applied. Betas are still chivalrous and alphas are above all that so both let it go.
Beautiful, man.
Now contrast this against my ‘4 horsemen of feminist collapse’ above. Islam will fight feminists in a way feminists are not capable to counter. Sex technologies will cause a dramatic drop in the market value of all women below an 8. Urban SWPL feminist chicks will face rising urban crime against women from disenfranchised lower-IQ men.
My god, it will be sweet……
More lower-income men getting disenfranchised, and banding together to take things by force (usually from women).
Tood, we know this one is not realistic.
@tood
the closest thing to your beta militias that is happening now is hooliganism. Hooligans are simply not getting laid. And hooligans tend to be the worst losers in the welfare state.
I see them as a force for anarchy, pawns of bigger players.
Tood, we know this one is not realistic.
Why? It is the one point that has always been a historical norm.
As disenfranchised men lose their jobs, while SWPL women in urban areas have expensive purses and go home from the law firm late at night, muggings cannot help but rise.
Throughout history, men who were losing out formed gangs. But for the first time, a lot of unmarried women with more money than them are available as easy pickings.
FeministX was mugged at knifepoint on the NYC subway, losing her laptop. This is a real-world recent example even among the small group of people who comment/commented here.
“FeministX was mugged at knifepoint on the NYC subway.”
—lol. Thank goodness. I guess sometimes there is some rough justice in the world.
@ guns
are you a muslim?
Hooligans are simply not getting laid. And hooligans tend to be the worst losers in the welfare state.
It is not about getting laid. There will simply be a trend of more thug-like men mugging/robbing single women. These men will form gangs, and will become more bold in their muggings. Marriage used to offer women a form of protction in the old days. In the modern world, this seems obsolete. But as more women start getting mugged in an economy where men are suffering more than women, things change.
Look at FeministX.
“One thing about women is that they accept whatever status quo exists in the world they live in.”
A historical anecdote which I’m relating from memory.
The location: Nazi Paris
Spring had arrived. The young women of Paris had bought new dresses. A small, but dedicated group of French men fought in the resistance. The Nazis organized dances with their officers. The women of Paris looked at their men, suffering and dying for France, and they looked at the Nazi officers, killing their people but offering a waltz and compliments.
Anyone want to guess who they picked?
White Survival
In the mid 14th century the Black Plague hit Europe and killed about a third of the people. Fairly early in the process there was an “inevitable” backlash against the local Jews because everybody knows they poison wells, right?
The Pope and other clergy tried to point out that Jews were dying as much as anyone else and so they should maybe re-think their accusations. Some minds were changed but not all.
even though I agree that women, blacks and jews cause trouble and should be contained somehow, I consider the most evil group to be old white people
those retirees whose pensions I must pay in taxes. Jews, blacks and women have never caused a fraction of the harm retirees have done to me.
This is why I am a total supporter of euthanasia. It is abortion for old people.
””””””””’lurker
Here’s to the Muslims, who currently keep their women in line.””””””””
Here’s to the muslim woman who treat there marriage like a ‘carreer’
@ tood
my point was that your future has already arrived. We have the beta/omega gangs you envision.
and they are harmless.
the thug who robbed FemX is probably getting laid. You need balls to be bold enough to rob. So I don´t think he fits your description.
Hooligans are truer betas/omegas. After living in England and getting used with them, I believe that maybe more than half of them are virgins.
@ tood
my point was that your future has already arrived. We have the beta/o m e g a gangs you envision.
and they are harmless.
the thug who robbed FemX is probably getting laid. You need balls to be bold enough to rob. So I don´t think he fits your description.
Hooligans are truer betas/o m e g a s. After living in England and getting used with them, I believe that maybe more than half of them are virgins.
“The women of Paris looked at their men, suffering and dying for France, and they looked at the Nazi officers, killing their people but offering a waltz and compliments.
Anyone want to guess who they picked?”
@cptnapalm –
They chose the alphas, as always. The french men were “losers”, while the German occupiers were “winners”, and hence much more attractive than the emasculated French losers.
“How about you and him fight?” — probably the oldest female line in the book.
””’on July 11, 2009 at 4:35 pm gig
@ guns
are you a muslim?””””””’
After my last vacation yea.
@guns
I bet it helps you a lot with girls
gig,
The feminist state is not just about getting laid. It is about economic disenfranchisement of men below average IQ.
In this recession, men are suffering more than women. Sure, thugs get laid. But they are broke too, and have the incentive to conduct even more crime. Jobs that women work in, however, are still growing.
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/81624/
I can’t believe you think this will not crime to rise against urban unmarried SWPL career women.
I agree with you about crime going up. But I don´t see it as a force against feminism, merely as a growing state of anarchy that will cause even more powers to be given to the state
hooliganism is nihilism. Nihilism always loses by default to any side proposing anything
If police officers who are also men getting raped in divorce court, get bitter enough, they might not try as hard to protect these feminist SWPL women from the thugs who mug them.
See what happens then?
Policemen are men too. They will still do their duty, but could easily choose to not do it as enthusiastically as before.
@rum,
you didn’t answer the question. Irrespective of whether the wife is still working full-time, part-time, or contributing hugely to the soccer team, swim team, PTA, and the church, she makes sacrifices with respect to her income earning potential.
Again the question: how do you regard the sacrifices made for the marriage, children? should she be shit out of luck?
anony,
Your questions have been answered. You merely did not like the answers, as they threaten your parasitic goals.
It is you who are dodging the questions :
Question for anony :
Since more and more men are wising up to this scam, they are seeking pre-nups before entering into marriage. What is your reaction to the growing trend of men seeking pre-nups?
If police officers who are also men getting raped in divorce court, get bitter enough, they might not try as hard to protect these feminist SWPL women from the thugs who mug them
there are two problems with that. first, police officer tend to be much more alpha than average; second, it is quite cheap to pay them enough to buy them. I believe that American police officers are paid middle class and in some places upper-middle class wages.
Good points Rum about the idiocy of anti-Semitism. Add to it that most of the patriotic Americana, from Captain America, Superman, God Bless America, and so on were created by deeply patriotic assimilated Jews, and you have a picture of total idiocy by the anti-Semites.
Jews are as you point out as deeply afflicted by divorce, SWPL-ism, out-marrying, loss of ethnic identity (like Catholic Irish and Poles and Germans), and yuppie status striving as anyone.
————
WRT the feminist argument that most men are not entitled to mate, most women are not “entitled” to safety. Either. I don’t see active militias, but I do see gangs, lots of violence because as noted, women love winners and the biggest way to be a winner is decide who lives or dies. It’s why gang members making less than a McDonald’s fry cook have more sexual power than say a pre-crash real estate broker. The women of France staged their own unconditional surrender to the Germans, leaving French men not much invested in them after the War. Most French men cheat like crazy on their wives, and don’t give a damn about them one way or another. It’s why France is collapsing.
The Mancession means that men will simply thug it up. They’re not going to just disappear. Women can “run things” like the West African matriarchies, and men will simply compete for women by thugging it up. Women will be the targets of violence too, along with children, as in West Africa. Men won’t care because neither will be “theirs” and male cooperation will simply cease. It will be all against all, and recall weapons give the advantage to the most psychologically ruthless, not necessarily the biggest or strongest.
“Again the question: how do you regard the sacrifices made for the marriage, children? should she be shit out of luck?”
If the woman filed for divorce (as women do almost all of the time), then yes, she should be excluded from any financial compensation.
You got a problem with that, sugartits?
@Todd,
pre-nups are the first step towards divorce.
like many here, you seem to have little capacity for trust. Without trust and respect, a marriage can’t survive. If you recognize this in yourself, you’ll stay a happier man.
Well I never had a problem getting girls until after my divorce. And right after high school. But I get along with the muslim guys I work with they make sense. I also have gotten along with asians my whole life. I figure why fight it.
Plus if I want to have 7 wives the only way to go he he he
But yea wife exstatic that I married her not because later she can now collect some money from me but because I married her. Not a bad gig.
@novaseeker:
“They chose the alphas, as always. The french men were “losers”, while the German occupiers were “winners”, and hence much more attractive than the emasculated French losers.”
This reminds me of Candide by Voltaire.
Candide spends his whole time chasing Cunegonde, a beautiful girl captured by a German soldier she doesn’t mind sexing, and by the time he finally gets to have her she’s old and hideous, and tons of men have already had their way with her.
I think the only relation to what you said mentioned the German soldier.
I wonder if the way women acted towards the French soldiers made it even worse for them. I mean, first they lose, then they lose the support of their womenfolk. That must really suck. I’d stand by them.
loss of ethnic identity (like Catholic Irish and Poles and Germans)
As a black Catholic who goes to a white Catholic Church, you may want to explain this in depth a bit more…
@anony:
I agree that pre-nups indicate a lack of trust, and if a man were to suggest to get a pre-nup, I’d rethink marrying him entirely.
At the same time, they do make sense, and I understand why people get them. So I don’t know if I’d be so against one. I know women who could also have benefited from pre-nups (one almost had to hand over her business and her child to her husband, but luckily she only had to pay him 200,000 dollars and he left her alone). So it goes both ways.
Anony
If a man specifically requires his wife to do the things you mentioned and if he had the power to really control the wifes career choices then there would be a case for compensation.
Nothing like either of these apply in 21st Century America.
Most of what women do at home is more like a hobby than real work. I mean, I am going to wash my car in a few hours. Should I be paid to do that? It all depends, doesn’t it, on who is requiring me to wash it. If it is my job requirement then in some way I could expect payment. If I wash it because I like to wash it then, err, no.
And if I wash it because I enjoy doing so and then demand money from somebody because of the “work” I just did I should not expect to get very far.
@Mandy,
I can think of exceptions to “first step toward divorce ” too:
-wife or husband has pre-existing financial dependents. ie. they came first
-HUUUGE discreprency in assets or debts between the husband and wife
IN most cases, though, the pre-nup is the first step toward divorce. Ironic too, that most couples have debts, not assets, to share.
What really freaks me out is when I was talking to a chick yesterday. She needs 3000 dollars just to cover the house and the 500 dollar electric bill and the 200 dollar water bill and the mortgage and have 600 dollars for spending money. I think it is fucking hillarious that if I make 630 dollars I will have the same spending money. Now I look at having 630 dollars as shit to spend per month. Yet I think a shitload of people that is all they have.
@rum,
I’ll assume you’ve never tended to children in a positive way. I’ve said this many times, not making it up today. I’m an emergency doc (part-time) in a very tough high-volume, high-acuity shop. I’ve also had a stage of life where I had a newborn, a toddler, and a pre-schooler. So , I had good days and bad days both for home days and ER days. Those days were about equal in draining me. It is very tough to tend to small children, keeping ahead of their needs, anticipating the teaching moment, staying emotionally cool, and nurturing.
I’ll excuse your naivete.
Oh also included in there is a 150 dollar cable bill ahhahaahahahahhaha
Effort put into hobbies can be extremely exhausting. Many people exert themselves more for their hobbies than for their jobs.
Who compelled you to get into the scenario you described? If you are an ER Doc you are not a softy and you understand the meaning of “choices have consequences.”
This goes to show do not listen to everything society tells you you need on the house side and such it eats you alive.
@rum,
Yes, to all above.
””””newborn, a toddler, and a pre-schooler””””””’
And these periods of time last a short time and it makes you the center of attention in society doesn’t it?
DA has more spending money than the majority of people. Dam that is messed up.
“Again the question: how do you regard the sacrifices made for the marriage, children? should she be shit out of luck?”
@anony –
Yes, she should be.
Why? Because in 2009, those are her choices. No husband can force those upon her — she chooses those because she wants to make that choice. She should not be able to make that choice, then divorce her husband for no reason and then make him pay her for a voluntary choice she made.
@guns,
“last a short period”…………yes,
“center of attention”…………no
But to my point earlier, one spouse makes sacrifices for the union and for the marriage, How should s/he be regarded?
@nova,
then what women would ever make career/financial sacrifices ?
who would raise the children?
No people walking up smiling or laughing that your little one puked on you.
“pre-nups are the first step towards divorce.”
@anony –
You do realize that they are standard in most continental european countries to the extent that my colleagues always giggle at me when they mention how awful american women are about such things? It’s a cultural view that they are the first step toward divorce. Other cultures, even in the West, do not share that view, probably because their understanding of marriage is more realism than it is Disney.
“then what women would ever make career/financial sacrifices ?
who would raise the children?”
@anony –
You can’t be serious to suggest that without alimony women would stop raising children?
@nova,
no. And are the prenupped euro marriages any better for it?
or are just the divorces better for it?
@novaseeker:
“probably because their understanding of marriage is more realism than it is Disney.”
:/
No happily-ever-afters?
@nova,
why would any sane woman/man sacrifice their livelihood without some reassurance of support should the union dissolve.?
“no. And are the prenupped euro marriages any better for it?
or are just the divorces better for it?”
@anony –
Both are better, because it’s known that these issues are aired ahead of time. Both parties enter into a marriage with clearer heads. Again, it is simply a more realistic view of marriage. The divorce turnover rate in most of these countries is lower than in the US, in terms of multiple divorces, ironically, even though pre-nups are ubiquitous.
@mandy! –
Sure they love, too. But they realize that there is a love part of marriage and a business part of marriage too. It isn’t all one or the other.
@seeker,
this is how I framed it upthread:
“why would any sane woman/man sacrifice their livelihood without some reassurance of support should the union dissolve.?”
@anony –
Because they want to? Because they they think it will last?
Look, if women stay away from marriage and children because alimony is nixed, that’s fine by me. I hardly think that is likely, however, because women are driven to have children — at least most of them. And most states have nixed alimony down substantially anyway. Texas has a hard limit on alimony. Do you think any woman who marries in Texas is insane?
And I’ll turn your question right around. What sane man would marry any woman knowing that she could, for no reason, leave him and collect a hefty alimony check for the rest of her life because she wanted to stay home with the kids?
Doug–
I feel bad for the men who really are GOOD, loyal, honorable husbands and dads, but I don’t feel bad for the husband with the roving eye who demands his wife quit her job and then has the balls to try to leave her penniless? I hope the courts get even tougher on those men.
[editor: let's reframe this argument of lady slut's:
"I feel bad for the women who really are GOOD, loyal, honorable wives and mothers, but I don't feel bad for the wife with the roving eye who demands her husband quit his job and then has the ovaries to try to leave him penniless? I hope the courts get even tougher on those women."
hm. the emotional punch of lady slut's stupidly fuming anger certainly changes complexion with just a simple switch of the sexes. i wonder if she would agree with the above?]
“A man and wife enter a marriage. Over the course of the marriage, one of them (either gender) sacrifices direct income, networking opportunities, continuing education opportunities, retirement benefits, full vestment, promotions, and endures unfavorable geographic relocations. The marriage dissolves. How would you regard the one who made the sacrifices? ”
@anony –
How it dissolves matters. No-fault alimony is unjust. You’re basing it on the “justice” of the sacrifices. Voluntary ones. But in order to assess the justice of awarding alimony for those, the reason for the marriage ending must be assessed, and no alimony should ever be awarded for (1) wife fault (adultery etc) or (2) wife voluntary walk away (don’t love him anymore, bored, need to find myself and so on).
anony wrote :
pre-nups are the first step towards divorce.
Hahahahah! Lol!!
Rather, they are the best litmus test a man can apply to filter out a parasite such as yourself.
why would any sane woman/man sacrifice their livelihood without some reassurance of support should the union dissolve.?
So the woman should keep working during the marriage.
You are such a phony. Not once did you admit that women initiate virtually all divorces, and that the courts are heavily stacked in favor of women. Nor did you admit that alimony should not be ‘no fault’.
You don’t want equality, you want daylight robbery of men. Fortunately for men, the feminist bubble is about to burst spectacularly within a decade.
So, anony, why should alimony be ‘no fault’?
Also, why is it that 80 or 90% of divorces are filed by women?
@nova,
I’d have no problem with that.
@Todd,
you are adorable.
””””””””””’anony
@guns,
“last a short period”…………yes,
“center of attention”…………no
But to my point earlier, one spouse makes sacrifices for the union and for the marriage, How should s/he be regarded?
on July 11, 2009 at 5:50 pm anony
@nova,
then what women would ever make career/financial sacrifices ?
who would raise the children?””””””””””””””
Both partners are making sacrifices. Don’t be obtuse.
See I don’t know guys need to marry a genious woman like my wife. She has a ‘carreer’ her hair salon and her rice fields They do not take much time. She already sacrificed before I met her working to save money to build her house and pay it off. So now she has her child that she adopted when we both have wanted one and she didn’t get one through sex from me. Instead of running out and trying to get another guy to impregnate her she just got an adopted kid to raise (after asking me for permission). Yea everyone in the extended family is having fun with the little midget including her. She has almost all the time in the day to take care of her husband when I am there relax and network clean the house cook do dishes. So yea what sacrifices is she making.
I on the other hand in order to insure that she had that lifestyle and I make some income when I go home one day when we are together have sacrificed almost every minute of my life over here in this dessert shithole for 4 and a half years.
So yea that is why she tells me to come home and don’t worry about it because she has not been americanized to believe that working all day is a priveledge and being able to be home and relax and spend time with extended family and her kid is a sacrifice. She tells me to come home and she will take care of the money side of it because she understands that I have been sacrificing my time and body for us. She wants to repay me for the sacrifice I have made for my family. This is mind boggeling. She understands that I have made a sacrifice to be here. Unlike the woman I have been seeing who are divorcing there men that I work with and still expecting a fucking payment for not doing shit.
anony is just about the best advertisement to persuade a successful, honorable man to avoid marriage.
anony might actually be a man who is doing a good job of pretending to be a feminist to scare off men from the slavery of divorce court.
— The women of Paris looked at their men, suffering and dying for France, and they looked at the Nazi officers, killing their people but offering a waltz and compliments
After the war, those women were dragged to the town squares and had their heads shaved. I saw photos in a WW2 picture book. Completely unlike some melodramatic scene you’s see in a Hollywood movie. It was worse.
She’d sit on her chair, kind of smiling embarrasedly, with a completely by then bald head, a man with shears standing over her, and a giant crowd of people — men, women, little girls — jeering her.
Back then, with my boyscout mentality, I felt bad for those women. Now? hah!
In occupied Poland, women who slept with Germans (as mistresses, not as forced prostitutes) were offed by the Resistance as collaborators. A quiet visit in the night, one bullet to the head. I’ve heard first-hand accounts.
Sometimes if they slept with a high-enough ranking German officer, they’d be forced by the partisants, under threat of death, to continue sleeping with him but steal documents, spy on conversations with other officers, etc.
— Here’s to the Muslims, who currently keep their women in line
So ya gonna hand your country over to some desert people because you can’t keep your womanin line?
Islam is a harsh desert religion, completely unsuited for the European temperament. Like Judaism and Christianity in some ways.
The only way Islam could take root among European men is if it’s subordinated to our cultural norms, similar to what happened with early Christianity.
@todd,
that number continues to rise hyperbolically on this site.
you are adorable.
See? Passing a woman’s tests works every time.
I remain adorable because I am adept at deflecting parasites before they attach. That is the #1 value of Game. Scoring with hot chicks is merely the #2 most valuable benefit.
that number continues to rise hyperbolically on this site.
No. It is accurate. Go read Devlin’s essays.
This is a known fact.
Your bullshit act is crumbling, and men across America are wising up to the extortion racket of feminists.
Ah…..the backlash will be glorious.
@todd,
you are adorable for your passion and for coping with your paranoia.
Just to backup Tood’s “Four Horsemen” idea (good idea!):
Keep in mind please: it only took 19 Men to knock down the Towers.
These were not the losers of the IQ lottery. All of these Men came from middle to upper class backgrounds in the Middle East, and were educated abroad; Muhammad Atta was an engineering major at Hamburg.
None of these Men were getting laid. Their final act before flying those planes into the World Trade Center, was to spend the nite at titty bars getting lapdances and drinking whiskey.
Cho, the Virginia Tech killer, created total chaos and terror armed w/only two pistols. Think about that for a second.
Two pistols.
Klebold and Harris were cnstantly taunted and jeered by the Jocks and Pretty Boys of the school, and vowed to get revenge on them as well as the *Black Jocks* of Colombine High. We all know what they did. They weren’t getting laid.
The Northwestern U killer, same deal, his girlfriend, probably the only one he had, dumped him prior to going all out in a blaze of glory.
One can go on and on w/documented examples.
In my Hip Hop DeeJaying days, one thing I repeatedly noticed was that the only guys who consistently started fights, were the guys who weren’t getting laid.
So yea, what Tood and Gig says, is definitely on-point, because most people, Men and Women alike, simply do not understand just how many guys out there aren’t getting laid. And that leads, invariably, to a lot of ANGER.
Women especially simply cannot comprehend this, since even for the most homely Woman, she can still get dick if she wants it. True, it may not be the dick she wants, but it beats a blank. For so many Men, especially in our times today as Roissy has laidout above, getting on first base, let alone getting your dick wet, can be all but impossible for a sizable amount of Men.
What happened to FemX recently is only the tip of the iceberg; note how NO ONE came to her aid. Same deal at Virgina Tech. And Colombine.
And so on.
The difference this time, is that we won’t just be dealing w/angry, disaffected Left Enders, but they’ll be joined by their Right Ender brothers as well. How many of them do you need to cause widepsread panic and real pain on an entire society? Left Enders are a nuisance on the micro level.
Right Enders can be catostrophic on the macro level.
Again: it only took 19 Men to knock down the Towers.
Use Occam’s Razor, instead of a butterknife.
O
you are adorable for your passion and for coping with your paranoia.
Translation : Please don’t blow our cover! The scam we are pulling over men is just too lucrative of a gravy train to pass up!
Pre-nups are a must in any marriage. That is why more men are requiring them.
I remind you that you are a woman who openly condones cuckolding. Nothing wrong with that, now is there, given the sacrifices that a woman is making?
@anony
I try to reframe negatives as part of my work. Try reframing prenuptials this way:
If you say a prenuptial agreement is a sign that a relationship lacks trust, the opposite is also true – a couple in a trusting relationship ought to be able to work out issues and put them on paper without damaging the nature of their relationship. Discussing and resolving thorny issues before you enter a binding marital contract is simply a smart thing to do. Because the relationship is still relatively “open” before marriage, both partners are less likely to feel trapped or pressured. An open-minded, relaxed atmosphere can help promote mutually beneficial conversation.
What are your thoughts on that perspective?
@todd,
you’re getting a bit goofy for me to follow, so I’ll sign off .
@anony
You don’t want to answer my question?
“I’d have no problem with that.”
@anony –
Very good then. I’d have no problems with alimony (in cases where women have sacrificed and so on) where (1) husband is at fault (adultery, addiction etc), or (2) husband walks away.
So perhaps we agree.
Obsidian,
Yes. Asymmetrical destruction, borne out through male disenfranchisement and resentment, can be powerful.
That is why horseman #2, sex technologies, will be good for men, and society as a whole, but costly for the mating prospects of average women.
3-D/VR/Holographic sex will be decent enough and affordable enough by 2020 that a lot of men will disappear into them. Since the VR woman is a simulated 10, and the reality for a Beta male may be 5s and 6s, he will probably just spend time in VR sex.
It will be analogous to having a free unlimited lifetime pass to the best strip club in town. Any man with such a pass would go daily. And yes, they would do this rather than spend time and money dating 5s and 6s.
Crime will drop. Terrorism will drop. Women will be safer, but will also be lonely and frustrated.
The men who do date real women will be men with Game. All women below an 8 will be in deep trouble with a greatly diminished market value.
Mandy—
If a woman I was considering marrying, because she wanted it so much as opposed to continuing to live together, balked hugely at a prenup, I’d get real cold feet on marrying her immediately, and well, wouldn’t. After all, it’s women that are divorcing men in America today, overwhelmingly, rather than the other way around.
I refuse to give up all or most of my economic power and drawn immediately upon marriage. Which is what happens without a prenup, although it takes a while to sink in, for non big time golddiggers.
@novaseeker, aoefe:
Thanks for explaining pre-nups and the financial aspects of marriage.
It is often said that the two main causes of relationship failure are:
1) bad sex
2) financial troubles/issues
In essence, controlling the way money is organized between both partners is important. Without that organization, trouble can ensue.
Also, I believe this references a previous discussion between tood and anony on becoming a stay-at-home mom:
Why is everyone knocking stay-at-home moms? I agree, that yes, maybe some are lazy and don’t do what they should. The same applies to people in the workplace. Those that do work hard have a lot to do. Maybe they are PTSA president or chairs and on top of that cook dinner and take care of the children. Don’t tell me that you can replace a home-cooked meal with fastfood or t.v. dinners. That’s bullshit (excuse my language), and you know it.
I have a feeling that putting down stay-at-home moms was one reason why women wanted to leave the home and enter the workforce, and possibly even spurred feminist movements. If women weren’t being valued for their work, then…well, screw it, they were going to go somewhere where they could at least earn their own money and be in control of it, and gain value in a materialistic way.
Although I think it’s a lot more complex than that.
“You don’t want to answer my question?”
No, I don’t. You men just don’t get it.
Why is everyone knocking stay-at-home moms?
Exactly. You’d think that stay at home moms (if kids are in the picture) is what an ant-feminist would want.
But then again, there are “traditional” guys here who want Muslims to take over their country.
””””””on July 11, 2009 at 1:51 am Rum
A moment of realization is worth a thousand prayers”””””””””””””””’
This is true I realize more and more every day that I hit some kind of female lottery.
I keep stressing about money. Yet if I gave it to my wife no big whoop. Wild shit. One step closer to the truth.
The case for replacing education as we know it with psychometrics
[E]ducation is about selection more than enhancement, and educational qualifications mainly serve to ‘signal’ or quantify a person’s hereditary attributes. So education mostly functions as an extremely slow, inefficient and imprecise form of psychometric testing.
http://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.com/2009/07/replacing-education-with-psychometrics.html
No man here is ‘knocking’ stay at home Moms.
What is being knocked is the notion that they are entitled to 80% of a man’s income merely if the woman gets bored and decides to leave.
In fact, it is anony who says being a stay at home mom is a tremendous sacrifice and an inferior life to a childless career woman.
””””’PA,
Why is everyone knocking stay-at-home moms?”””””””
What I have a stay at home mom now. She also makes money. Shit is wild. Stay at home moms own. They can spend almost the whole day working at the relationship. Seeing them mend your jeans while you kick back is some hot stuff.
@doug1:
Well, one thing I always thought would be awkward about marriage was money.
I mean, I don’t like the thought of spending someone else’s money.
My mom once joked with me about marrying a rich man, and I was astonished she could joke about such a thing. It’s not even funny. Why would you spend someone else’s money?
That’s why I think it’s better if things are separate, with each partner having access to the other’s accounts during emergency situations.
That’s how I think.
So maybe pre-nups would work with that.
Gotcha Tood. Anony is an idiot, best ignored.
@Tood:
Gotcha. I’m with you on that one.
Stay at home moms own.
Dawmn straignt Gunner!
Very few women actually want to work once already married. Virtually all women whose husbands make enough for them to stay at home, do so.
aeofe–
re a certain blondie wanting blockquote tips:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/science-continues-to-prove-the-roissy-worldview/#comment-104012
(pardon my failure to delete the last graph)
Personally unless a woman is disabled she shouldn’t have access to alimony. I do however feel a mother should have access to child support. Once a child has reached maturity and/or after college is finished the support ends. Plain and simple. The child should be able to be supported at the level of support they had when the marriage dissolved (i.e. they don’t become pauper families). I think some battles over child custody arise out of child support monies, a mother realizes she’d have fewer dollars in her pocket if there was a shared custody agreement so seeks full. Is this a system failure? Or perhaps the mothers wouldn’t be able to afford their current housing if they only received partial child support monies. It’s complicated.
There are creative ways to deal with divorce. I have a friend with children, her ex husband is a lawyer and they have a fancy house, in a fancy neighbourhood. They didn’t want the kids to leave their surroundings so they rented a divey apartment in a rather scuzzy area – he/ex lives there one week and she lives there one week – the kids stay in the house. Creative management. She does not get alimony and went back to work when the marriage ended.
Prenuptial agreements can prevent the messiness of divorce in terms of asset division, company ownership etc. They can’t always prevent alimony payments – the law is not quite clear on this from my understanding. Factors like the length of marriage and other details would be taken into consideration.
All in all they’re a great idea and either partner who runs from them is not facing the bleak facts about divorce in this country. Of course we all want to be in the percentages that survive, but there’s a pretty equal chance we won’t. Let’s take our heads out of our asses people.
Feminism was invented by disaffected lesbians and promoted by oligarchs who wanted to double the workforce and decouple women from their husbands.
In other words, to steal other men’s wives’s work for themselves. I can’t even for a split second imagine myself tolerating my wife having a male boss.
@anony
aoefe said: “You don’t want to answer my question?”
anony said: “No, I don’t. You men just don’t get it.”
Anony I’m a woman.
@PA:
“I can’t even for a split second imagine myself tolerating my wife having a male boss.”
That’s why you marry…
a bosslady.
”””””’on July 11, 2009 at 6:51 pm aoefe
Personally unless a woman is disabled she shouldn’t have access to alimony””””””’
Nice way to sidestep just like people do on abortion well I don’t think it should be but what if the chick is raped it should be ok. If the woman is disabled she can go on disability. Do guys get alimony because they where disabled and the wife left?
””””””on July 11, 2009 at 6:58 pm Mandy! XD
@PA:
“I can’t even for a split second imagine myself tolerating my wife having a male boss.”
That’s why you marry…
a bosslady.”””””””’
Why you encourage your stay at home wife to start a business.
Nah, bossladies are married to their jobs. Always busy with work stuff. Always someone calling them. Usually some dude from higher-up.
Best if they work in some nice frilly place like a perfume store or a kindergarden, with a bunch of other women and a female supervisor.
Women should also work, in large numbers, in my industry as admins, assistants, receptionists, et al, alway helpful, giggling, and being hot, for me to pass the day with a smile
aoefe–
I absolutely do not agree and would never voluntarily agree to this.
There’s a huge chasm between “pauper families” and “level to which she had become accustomed”, which is what you are advocating. I find the later ABHORRENT.
She’s no longer doing anything for him. She should not get the same level of support, demanded at the point of assault rifles and in jail for the rest of his life until he provides it (literally).
I would shoot people over this.
aeofe,
Anony I’m a woman.
Remember that in feminist-speak, a woman who does not toe the feminist line is not really a woman.
Recall how some ‘feminists’ insisted that Sarah Palin is ‘not really a woman’. They actually said that, despite the fact that she has borne 5 kids….
Why should a woman be kept at the same level of lifestyle if that is the lifestyle she is divorcing it obviously was not the lifetyle that made her happy so maybe she should go see what a really shitty lifestyle looks like.
@doug
I’m advocating for children not the wife here. Don’t shoot me!
I think divorce places the burden most directly on the kids not the spouses, why should they suffer for their parent’s stupidity. I do think there should be more controls on the spending and if mom is the type to be frivolous then someone should be monitoring the spending on behalf of the kids. Maybe divorce should operate like not-for-profit agencies where boards are needed to approve financial expenditures etc. I’m not kidding.
aoefe–
So she should be supported at the level to which she had been accustomed if she cheats four years into marriage, refuses to stop cheating with the same man, is deeply in love with him, and refuses to have sex with her husband. She or he file for divorce.
Is that what you’re saying aoefe?
For most non rich men this will mean that HE won’t be able to continue to live in the style to which he had been accustomed even by himself, much less with a replacement wife or live together lover.
No aoefe. Absolutely frickin not.
“shoots aoefe”
aoefe–
Women always tag along behind the children in Anglosphere divorce and child support law “reform”.
If women want to support their children they should marry carefully and make marriages work.
Or else earn well themselves and /or find a good replacement man.
The system we have now really is INDENTURED SERVITUDE aoefe.
@gunslingergregi
I get what you’re saying, women should think REALLY long and hard about leaving their husbands for reasons not having to do with the three A’s (addiction, adultery or abuse), the grass is not as green as they’d imagine it to be. Should they be kept at a high standard? No way. But should the kids suffer? Nope.
I do see how this poses difficulties…how do you keep the kids at a standard and not the mother…hmmmm. Not sure. I don’t pretend to have the answers, but feel bad for the kids.
I thougt you were a good girl dammit.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoooooooooooefffffffffffffffffffffeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh jesus christ
””””aoefe,
I’m advocating for children not the wife here””””””””
Oh my fucking god.
”””””””’aoefe,
I get what you’re saying, women should think REALLY long and hard about leaving their husbands for reasons not having to do with the three A’s (addiction, adultery or abuse), ”””””””””””
@doug:
It’s not the children’s fault their mother is a whore (in that situation).
You’re putting the worst case scenario in there.
I think a certain amount child support should be paid (by whomever is not raising the children or is spending very little time with them) and should be adjusted according to certain circumstances. I don’t think that things like a playstation or t.v. should be counted as necessities, but that parent should chip in for school payments, or food, or clothing, or something.
There should be a law that requires the parent to report what the money is being spent on, to avoid misuse. (ie the mother/father spending all the child support on children that did not come out of that union, or on their booze, etc.)
@doug
I totally get what you’re saying. Taking away no fault divorce is a good way to start and prenups would be a must. I’m just trying to figure out how the innocent (kids) get away unscathed – and maybe they don’t. Sucks.
There is no standard to keep them at do employers that give these careers have to give anything to all the men that have recently been fired. Do the employers have to take care of the kids and make sure families don’t get thrown on street no
@gunslingergregi
What? You don’t think there’s ever a reason to end a marriage? I think there’s reasons for both sides – I’m not advocating for women alone here.
aoefe
To bring women back into line. To a more reasonable degree. that’s why.
What happens is that men are regularly completely screwed. I mean middle class or upper middle class men are.
Sure there are a lot of women hard luck stories on divorce. When the man they married was an alpha or semi alpha slippery loser. Then yeah, you can’t get blood out of a stone. Especially one you can’t find. But you can’t anyway.
For which I blame them, those women, by far the most.
If women care about their children, let them start treating who they have them with, and how they treat the relationship / marriage, a lot more seriously.
aoefe in her divorce with her man would use for the children as the reason why she deserves alimony and child support.
I am extremely dissapointed.
Well men you can’t get married anymore in us. Fuck
I’m just trying to figure out how the innocent (kids) get away unscathed – and maybe they don’t.
They’ll be fine.
I would shoot people over this.
See?
This is what I am saying, and what Obsidian is saying. Normally docile white-collar professional men are going to be driven to the breaking point, resulting in violence. Or at least, will refrain from aiding a woman who is the victim of violence from a street thug.
Women will reap what they have sown, as a result.
If men want babies, then they should SUPPORT the women who have them and the babies they MAKE.
OR women will just continue to NOT marry assholes who think they deserve their “freedom” while the woman is strapped with the kids. This is why women are better off having babies by themselves and supporting THEMSELVES from the start of their life to the end. No man can whine in your ear then about that “$25.00 you spent” or some bullshit.
This kind of attitude reinforces my belief that I made a good choice. I’d never deal with this attitude.
@Gunslinger:
She wasn’t saying anything about alimony.
But she was advocating child support (to an extent).
And why are you speaking about her future divorce as though it’s a fact? What the heck is wrong with you? Don’t do that!
Divorce is terrible. ;-; Don’t jinx her.
@gunslingergregi
I am a good one, I’m just trying to sort out the kids in all of this. I get your analogy to employers too. I think there need to be MUCH stronger incentives for women not to leave their husbands. MUCH. It is slanted in a woman’s favour and I don’t think they consider their kids when they makes changes to be happier – which is a ridiculous concept to begin with. If women were not as likely to get custody and not likey to get alimony and not as likely to get child support to keep up their standards maybe marriages would last longer. I get that and I support it. What I’m talking about is the current situation – kids suffering because of their parents stupidity. I don’t have a solution really – so I’ll shut up now.
Aeofe,
While most of us will agree that innocent children should not get screwed…
How do you propose that the costs of the divorce be concentrated on the spouse who files divorce, when that is usually the woman AND the woman usually gets custody (which is a trojan horse for alimony, guised as child support)?
Now you see the insidious feminist loophole here, and why more and more men are avoiding marriage?
@PA:
That is the most ridiculous thing to say! You think kids seeing their parents fighting and moving away is healthy? You think that will positively affect their future relationships with people?
Are you insane?
http://www.childadvocate.net/divorce_effects_on_children.htm
Yes, people move on, but that isn’t healthy for them. It isn’t.
@tood
See above comment. Yes I see the difficulty and it sucks it does. How do we as women help change this around? Do we speak publically? I’m serious.
All parents fight from time to time. “Healthy” was never meant to be synonymous with “ensconced in bubblewrap.”
Are you married? do you have any children?
Or maybe if a woman is worried about her kids that much she should just stay with their father?
There is plenty of evidence that children of divorce are at a disadvantage. There is also plenty of evidence that children do badly without a strong relationship with their father.
The only reason a mother should leave the father of her children while they are under 18 is if they are all in physical danger.
””””””””aoefe
@gunslingergregi
What? You don’t think there’s ever a reason to end a marriage? I think there’s reasons for both sides – I’m not advocating for women alone here.”””””””””””
Nope there is never a reason to end a real marriage by divorcing.
“Do not own the house in your name. Have your FLP own the house, so that it is in your mother’s name, but you are paying rent. Then, she cannot ‘take’ the house. ”
Not true. I know an old woman who was displaced from her home because her son was not up on alimony/child support so the court ordered that his mother had to pay!!!
The court can order anything.
I guess my nurturing instincts kicked in when I thought of the kids, didn’t really evaluate my entire statement and its effects on the whole picture. Don’t hate, I’m still listening and learning.
@PA:
Yes, but divorce is an ugly thing. It’s not the occasional fight.
It’s the fight of all fights. It’s the end of the end.
And no, I’m not. And no, I don’t.
Are you married? Do you have children?
@Gunslingergregi
I agree, though removing oneself from a dangerous situation is one of those rare exceptions.
“bad sex”
@Mandy! –
This is, in fact, the leading issue in divorces.
=========
@aoefe, doug1 –
The issue with CS is that normally if it keeps the kid to the same standard, it keeps the ex-w to the same standard, which means it is alimony in disguise.
If courts would mandate house sharing, that would be better. I think then there would be less bitterness about CS because it would be smaller, rarer, and more directed at kids.
I mean my ex and I know a couple where the woman (divorced and a high earning lawyer herself) pulls down ~2600 from her ex-h monthly even though she has remarried a wealthy law partner. We all know that 2600 is not going to true “children costs”. It’s a windfall, and not even dissolved upon remarriage. It’s nonsense as it currently works.
I think Roissy should be mandatory reading for all women ages 17 and up. Can we get that legislated?
ImperfectCadence nailed it. Kudos Sir (or Ma’am).
It’s Ma’am.
And I thank you.
””””””””””””””””aoefe
@doug
I totally get what you’re saying. Taking away no fault divorce is a good way to start and prenups would be a must. I’m just trying to figure out how the innocent (kids) get away unscathed – and maybe they don’t. Sucks.”””””””””””””””””’
The innocent kids will never get away unscathed from their parents splitting up and it has nothing to do with the money.
Are you married? Do you have children?
Yes and Yes.
;””””””””””””’ImperfectCadence
@Gunslingergregi
I agree, though removing oneself from a dangerous situation is one of those rare exceptions.”””””””””””
Nope if my wife wants to cut off my head with a machete I will let her.
@Gunslingergregi
“The innocent kids will never get away unscathed from their parents splitting up and it has nothing to do with the money.”
I agree. I have too many friends and family members who have suffered because their parents divorced not to believe this. I would NEVER willingly put my children in this position.
anony wrote:
This is the real problem here: Women regard full-time, traditionally male style employment as a standard, to an extent such that raising children becomes a “sacrifice” of that standard.
Ridiculous.
Who needs two refrigerators in the same kitchen, so to speak? Especially as a standard?
@PA:
Well, then, sorry. >.>’
@aoefe:
Don’t know if it can be legislated, but I think we can make roissy more popular on the interwebs.
The book “The Game” is becoming super popular, probably as popular as Twilight (ugh) is for girls.
@nova
CS as alimony in disguise, yes see how that could be. Never thought of it that way. House sharing as I mentioned earlier is a very good idea. And yes CS should be kid related period. The scenario you mentioned with a couple you know is disgusting – seems like fraud and yet mandated by the court.
I’m off to a chicks poker night gotta run. Again apologies for offending the men here. Not my intent.
It’s a good and admirable quality in women to fuss, sometimes to excess, over their children’s well-being.
But this is necessarily balanced by the father’s guarded nonchalance. “Don’t worry about him riding his bike in the dirt babe, he’ll be fine.”
Sometimes those roles will reverse, like when the mom will be nonchalant about her 13 year old daughter showing too much leg and sternum, with the stepping in with “no way are we taking her out dressed like this.”
aeofe,
How do we as women help change this around? Do we speak publically? I’m serious.
I will always fight alongside a woman who is interested in changing the system to be more fair.
Solutions :
1) Since Divorce is no-fault, alimony absolutey MUST have a high burden of justification (the three As, as was mentioned before). No-fault alimony is the killer.
2) Child support should be restricted to the cost of daycare or a nanny. Absolutely no more, simply because the man makes more.
The father can choose to give money directly to his kids by comtributing to a 529 plan or a trust, which thus bypasses the wife.
BUT THERE SHOULD NOT BE CHILD SUPPORT AS A LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE MAN’S INCOME, WHICH EFFECTIVELY BECOMES ALIMONY FOR THE WIFE.
3) What you can do :
Become an advocate of fairness towards men, the way a tiny number of women, like Helen Smith and Amy Alkon are. Be someone who helps explain to women why a pre-nup is in the childen’s best interest, as money can go to the children’s 529 plan rather than to lawyer’s fees. A pre-nup reduces the chance of divorce in the first place, which is also better for the children.
Become a counselor or mediator in this regard, if you have the time and inclination. But we certainly need more women like you.
Countries like India have very low divorces. It is NOT because Indian women are more moral or have any special capacity to make their husbands happy. It is simply because women get no money from divorce, and divorce has to require ‘fault’ to be proven. Hence, divorce rates are very low. There are cases of women being abuses, but weighed against the fact that most kids grow up with 2 parents, the net benefit to society is still better than it is under the American system where everything revolves around keeping the woman maintained, children and father be damned.
Good luck.
”””””””””ImperfectCadence
@Gunslingergregi
I agree, though removing oneself from a dangerous situation is one of those rare exceptions.””””””””””””’
That is the problem rare exceptions end up becoming the norm. Some things need to fucking be this or that no middle ground.
@PA:
“Sometimes those roles will reverse, like when the mom will be nonchalant about her 13 year old daughter showing too much leg and sternum, with the stepping in with “no way are we taking her out dressed like this.”
My dad had his own way of handling that.
“Don’t wear that damn miniskirt, your thighs look fucking huge.”
“Wow, those jeans are so tight I can see your cellulite.”
I don’t have cellulite.
He’s stopped recently though.
Gunny–
Before and unless kids are involved, I don’t agree. Actually I strongly disagree in many situations. Though I think childless marriages should be treated as non marriages, i.e. like living together in non palimony states. (i.e. non California, but palimony isn’t as broad as people think.)
When children are involved, it should be very hard to get a divorce, and/or the party demanding one should pay a severe price. Only way to lower them greatly. Divorces with kids at home that is.
@ doug
Indeed.
Not only that, but also, a few financial ups and downs are actually good for kids. Clearly I’m not talking about penury here, but kids’ character grows with the ebb and flow of fortune.
There is WAY WAY WAY too much emphasis in American society on “protecting the children” not only from actual danger, but from even the small bumps and jostles of life. Fuck that. No pain no gain.
If your dad were the sadly-all-too-common steamrolled-by-wife-and-kids SWPL American dad, this would not work. It would only lead to further acts of sexual defiance, against which said dad would be essentially powerless.
Apparently your dad is not the sadly-all-too-common steamrolled-by-wife-and-kids SWPL type.
Good for him.
“Again apologies for offending the men here. Not my intent.”
@aoefe –
None taken. You speak openly and also recognize the truth when you encounter it. This is prized in women among men.
Tood–
Tood,there should never be any alimony in the female employment circumstances of today, period, end of story.
If she has young children she has years of child support = alimony at levels all too close to or exceeding the level aoefe is suggesting (because they aren’t frozen but go up with a man’s earnings, limitlessly, almost).
If she doesn’t she has no excuse to not be working, and he shouldn’t have to pay for that decision.
I’d like to hear your response tood.
Where fault/no fault might legitimately have an impact in a prenup is in asset division. It should too in levels of the alimony component of child support, but doesn’t by legal override.
No alimony. EVER. Period.
(Bimbos better be pleasing and pleaseable, or better get the next guy quick enough.)
”””””Doug,
Though I think childless marriages should be treated as non marriages,”””””””
Thats the thing yea not even for that. When you start putting more and more criteria on why it can be done. The list just keeps growing doesn’t it. I have not had kids with my woman yet that doesn’t mean I am going to divorce her. So yea. After we go to doctor and it is found that I can still have kids. I can get married to another woman that can have my kids though without having to divorce my wife. The many benefits of being muslim.
@Epoxy:
My dad’s a lot older than most dads. You see the SWPL dad probably in men in their forties in younger. My dad’s already in his sixties. Totally different generation, totally different mentality.
doug1,
One of the foremost clauses of the pre-nup is to exclude all alimony for both parties. Period.
But how can one get around the child support trojan horse of alimony, when a pre-nup cannot shield a man from this? Do you have ideas?
I wrote some ideas here, but I don’t know how effective they would be, other than a deterrent for divorce in the first place.
What are your thoughts?
aoefe–
“I’m thinking of the children”
Why should a woman with a child or two who messes up her marriage be entitled to state compelled transfer payments from the unwilling father, at a munificent upper middle class level, when a woman who screws up in the world of education and/or work and has a child and goes on welfare is not? In each case we have the best interests of a child at stake.
Why isn’t a minimal safety net level, to compel or be entitled to as opposed to voluntarily given, in each case?
A dessert eagle tood.
@doug1
Why the assumption that it’s the woman who “messes up” a marriage?
””””””””””””ImperfectCadence
@Gunslingergregi
“The innocent kids will never get away unscathed from their parents splitting up and it has nothing to do with the money.”
I agree. I have too many friends and family members who have suffered because their parents divorced not to believe this. I would NEVER willingly put my children in this position.””””””””””’
Yea my parents pretty much had no money when I was in high school. I still had an awesome time. But they got divorced when I was basically 18 and it did fuck up my worldview.
PA — only Prostitutes with few family backers had their heads shaved after Liberation. Almost ALL French and Dutch women were sleeping with German officials, who ran after all most of France, and controlled economic necessities. Pretty much all French women were sleeping with the Germans (say ages 17-40) and there were far too many to punish. Same with the Dutch.
DA — Irish Catholics in particular don’t keep much of the Church teachings and often marry out, lose both language (many of the immigrants of the 1840’s through 1880’s spoke Gaelic not English) and culture. Same for Germans, Poles.
Tood–
No, I don’t. Basically I don’t.
You can try to mandate true joint custody. The idea there is to basically strip out the wife supporting (alimony) part of child support. You’re gonna have to do the direct support for the kid at reasonable levels for your income but many / most professional type men would want to except perhaps in the case of a very early divorce with infants. In any even it’s way better. But courts don’t have to follow, even if there aren’t bad facts on the man’s side. It may influence them though. May. More likely won’t. Or only a smidgin.
I don’t know anything about your Nevada trust idea. I doubt it would work. They’ll be able to get employer payroll records.
I’m sure it wouldn’t re: child support. The courts would simply order garnishment of your wages pre any transfer anywhere. If you’re self employed you have more latitude generally but we’re also getting into fraud and also tax fraud territory. I’m not saying I’d be morally opposed to some of that re: feminist divorce law extractions but one needs to weigh the risks.
Something else a prenup should do though is make her pay for her own legal expenses. If she doesn’t have the bucks, you’d have to front out of settlement money, but that’s what it should be, and advance. Same thing with support during the pendancy of the settlement/trial proceedings. This will tend to reign in her lawyers, which if you have bucks but aren’t really really rich, is a MAJOR issue. They’ll at least have to tell her about it. I.e the legal fees she racks up are really coming out of her pocket in the end. This only works with a prenup. Otherwise if she doesn’t have the ready cash, they will all be out of your pocket, including at the final tally.
Manage your women, or they will manage you.
Whiskey–
Another completely ridiculous Whiskey assertion.
I challenge you to provide any credible link. Credible Whiskey.
Sure many were.
It’s also not remotely true that only prostitutes had their heads shaven following WWII liberation, if they’d slept with the German occupiers. Not true at all.
And yes PA, I’d fully support doing that, in most circumstances.
(Exceptions? A woman is doing it to literally save her husband’s or childrens’ lives, immenintly, as opposed to, “by getting better cuts of meat”. She’s working for the Resistance and getting info. And so on.)
PA–
It’s actually very mild. there’s an argument for shooting them.
Or disfiguring them permanently to some degree. Face scar. Neck scar. Tattoo.
But in the end, I’d go for the head shaving and public humiliation, that would pass, except by reputation, unless she moved. But even if she didn’t would recede in most people’s estimation over time, and be redeemable, without constant automatic reminder.
doug1,
You can try to mandate true joint custody. The idea there is to basically strip out the wife supporting (alimony) part of child support.
OK. But can a pre-nup stipulate this?
Also, under joint custody, that also prevents either ex-spouse from leaving that city, correct?
Also, can a pre-nup stipulate that all issues have to be resolved through medition, rather than through the courts (thus bypassing the horrors of the court system)? If so, that alone would mitigate many risks.
Nevada Trusts : How do the very wealthy shield their assets from divorce, then? I am sure most wealthy men, particularly in second marriages, do not let themselves be subjected to these unmodified laws. They have some tools of shielding available to them, which I am trying to identify.
A person can certainly have his assets in an FLP, rather than under his own name. That much I know.
I agree. Adulterers should be shamed. Such as men who cheat on their wives being dragged into the public square by their penis wrapped in barbed wire….you know…something that will REALLY show those men they’d better have “good family values”.
Also, why would women who slept with German soldiers deserve shaming? I’m so sick of hearing this Jew-Whining about the Holocaust. WAAAAAAHHHHH our people were slaughtered like every other race, culture, and gender were at some point in history……those women should be proud that they picked a good German Soldier. A German man AND a soldier? Now THAT is a man.
””””””””Cat Patrol
Manage your women, or they will manage you.””””””’
That works in places where their are no rewards for divorce.
maurice to aoefe
Does Canadian health care provide subsidized buttplugs?( if yes, when can I come to visit)
Maurice @pookie- are you perchance a black female in DC? whose first name begins with Z? you know who you are( my former side piece who made my second wife take me to the cleaners. Remember that extra large bu.tplug you used on me?) if i am correct.
maurice
@pookie- my mistake and apologies.
Yes, better clean that up fast. Your wife is looking over your shoulder as you type.
Mu Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t both Rice and Powell support affirmative action?
Yes. I can recall Condi wanting to make changes to the AA system but she does support it.
Racer x As for the stories about men Jamaica men fucking middle age women, I would not fuck a fat middle aged women if you paid me.
Oh that’s what they all say. Cigstash has had a more than a few young men do something strange for some change.
Racer x I come here to read about fucking hot women and anything at least related to that, nothing else.
and I read your blog for stories about your tales of licking hot women. You need new posts, db and I are eagerly awaiting.
Fastest way to get divorce rate down and thus eliminating a hell of a lot of childhood trauma would be for the father to get presumption of custody. As the women on this board have demonstrated, they generally have maternal instincts and will not want to be away from their kids. With presumption of father as custodial parent, most women (or at least a hell of a lot of them) will think twice before filing for divorce.
I assume the sexual technologies market will be available for women to use as well…
I’m personally ecstatic for this reality to come to fruition: I’d like to order a Johnny Depp, please.
whiskey – Almost ALL French and Dutch women were sleeping with German officials, who ran after all most of France, and controlled economic necessities. Pretty much all French women were sleeping with the Germans (say ages 17-40) and there were far too many to punish. Same with the Dutch.
whiskey, please kill yourself. You’re a paranoid psychotic when it comes to women.
You simply will never learn. You overgeneralize in the most extreme ways to reinforce your fears and biases.
It’s more likely the fact that the vast majority of French/Dutch women 17-40 were NOT sleeping the Germans during WWII.
The only reasons you make these ridiculous claims about women is because you are a paranoid dork and because your overheated brain LOVES to think in verbal essentialisms. Almost everything is categorical with you.
Sometimes you actually make interesting points on your site and here. Why can’t you make an effort to actually calm down and think about reality CRITICALLY instead of just using ideas to reinforce your paranoid obsessions.
Practice the technique of looking for evidence and arguments that will challenge your categorical and cynical view of things.
Start with the claim – ” Almost ALL French and Dutch women were sleeping with German officials, who ran after all most of France, and controlled economic necessities. Pretty much all French women were sleeping with the Germans.”
Now test it critically against evidence from a reality you never experienced.
1) Preface your statements with “Is it true that…?”
2) Look for evidence and arguments to support the claim.
3)….AND THIS IS THE KEY ONE – Look for evidence and arguments or alternative theories that CONTRADICT the claim.
Imagine that your claims are like a small aircraft you are about to fly in. Do you want the designer/mechanic/pilot to just make their efforts WITHOUT testing the plane properly to make sure it can fly safely?
You would want them to test it out more than a little bit. Test it and retest it to make sure it coordinates with reality properly.
You need to practice this way of thinking to help you with your mental problems.
You need to forget about Game and start learning how to Think.
Cigstash has had a more than a few young men do something strange for some change
Heh. I wouldn’t do sexi-time with Cigstache, but I’d gladly do shots with her in a redneck bar.
Which reminds me. Once, around when I was 19 (not quite two decades ago) I drove to the Virginia / Tennessee / Kentucky tristate area. Complete middle of nowhere.
In the evening I came upon a strip club, which I entered, somewhat ill-at-ease. I was a bit nervous about the mythical “rednecks kicking my ass” but I had nothign to worry about, it turns out.
Well, there sure were some dancers like Cigstache working the room. And they had happy customers, too. Me? I took a liking to a tall, thin woman in her late 20s or early 30s. Pretty face, with kindly grey eyes. Looked like the type who worked hard all her life. As did everyone else in that place.
I had frequent lapdances with her. They cost only a dollar, and involved her merely leaning into me and kinda dancing between my legs, no genital contact. She has very nice, small firm breasts.
I was a virginal (not literally) 19 year old, looking even younger than I was, and out of my element. She was popular with other patrons, so she’d come back to them, and then make her way back to me. For another $1 lapdance. It was mostly Country songs that I wasn’t familair with, and some Rock.
At one point, I worked up my courage and asked her “please don’t be offended by my question, but woudl you mind coming to my motel later when you get off work?”
She replied, very nicely in fact, with her Kentucky accent “I won’t come to your motel with you, but please be assured that I didn’t take yourt question with offense; I can tell you are a very decent young man.”
Chic….
I will be sure to oblige your desires very soon…
“I think Roissy should be mandatory reading for all women ages 17 and up. Can we get that legislated?”
It should be mandated for men ages 16-40. We don’t want the wome all knowing that we know that they’re up to.
Novaseeker – your female lawyer friend collecting 2600 from the ex, while remarried, should be shot.
PA Heh. I wouldn’t do sexi-time with Cigstache, but I’d gladly do shots with her in a redneck bar.
You came to mind when I wrote that comment. Cigstache looks like the type with great stories that will have you giggling all night.
willard libby whiskey, please kill yourself. You’re a paranoid psychotic when it comes to women.
Too harsh. give him some gin and a valium.
Re: French and German relations.
That whole subject has always been an extremely sensitive one in France. There was for a long time a strong unwillingness to discuss the issue much less try to quantify it. So, no one will ever know the % of fuckable French ladies who took advantage of a ride on the conquering alpha cock-carosel.
The problem remains, however, that so many did and with so much apparent gusto that no one alive then could have missed the message. The damage to the French psyche was such that this is (or has been) almost a taboo subject.
In the Netherlands, also under occupation, there seems to have been much less Nazi-fucking. However, when the handsome young allied troops came in at the end of the war, a lot of Dutch men – who had been risking their lives in the resistance – had to endure the sight of their hottest young women virtually stand in line for the new guys. That did some scarring as well.
””””””””””””PA,
At one point, I worked up my courage and asked her “please don’t be offended by my question, but woudl you mind coming to my motel later when you get off work?”
She replied, very nicely in fact, with her Kentucky accent “I won’t come to your motel with you, but please be assured that I didn’t take yourt question with offense; I can tell you are a very decent young man.”””””””””””””””’
Nice of her to let you down easy. Apparently you should have done that on one of the chicks I work with. She was telling me about how when she was in korea (she is american) one of the soldiers walked up and said “lets go fuck” She said she took his arm and started walking out. Said he was shocked and stood there. She was like what woman need it too. They had a 8 month ltr after that night I guess.
Wild stuff about the super apocalypse lol
I think she may have been doing the womans version of the apocalypse actually late at night just me and her. Not biting though lol
aoefe has ruined me completely.
Nice of her to let you down easy.
Yeah, but if I were my current age, she’d probably have told me to go fuck off. I was such a kid then, so clearly “not from around here” and I was so timid and polite, it isn’t a big surprise in retrospect that she was nice to me about it.
Still, it was so hot how she just stood there, topless, and smiled when she said “no,” and then did her lapdance until the song ended. I had two or three more with her after than, and then I left.
Don’t be so hard on yourself lol current age.
After I was still talking with her I was like yea I normally just want to have sex first then you can talk all you want without having to worry about sex just chill. She agreed that was a good idea lol and I don’t lift or stay in shape he he he
She probably just thought you couldn’t handle her at that stage of your life. Now you did it she would prob say yes.
Libby, I’m basing my statements on the various studies done on the Vichy regime, and Dutch occupation. Nearly all attractive women were entangled with the occupiers, which makes sense. Come on, there wasn’t a normal economy, and the occupiers, civil and military, had all the power. The occupation was not harsh either, as in the Eastern front.
People had to eat. Obviously unattractive or older women were not involved. But let’s get real. Conquerors come in, run everything, and control all life’s essentials, everything is controlled and rationed, from how much butter you can buy in the store, to travel, to sugar, to pretty much everything.
Collaboration in France and the Netherlands was extensive, in all walks of life, from intellectuals to remote farm peasants (who probably collaborated the least, being removed from urban life and with most of the necessities of living at hand).
The shaving of the Prostitutes heads was and is a sore-spot for women, various Communist academics, and so on, who point out that most women in Vichy did in fact sleep with Nazi officials to gain money, supplies, protection, and so on, as did most of the Dutch women. They have their own motives for pointing this out (the inevitable corruptibility of the bourgeoisie I suppose) but there it is. It was well documented in letters to home from German soldiers and officials, German records, the Vichy Occupation records, and personal diaries of the time.
One of the massive failures of the OSS and British Secret Service operations in Occupied Europe was sending in female operatives, on the theory that women could move around more with less attention. It was a disaster. Because first, nearly all women of their age (young, attractive) were the mistresses of various Nazi officials, and women who did NOT sleep with Germans stood out like a sore thumb. Secondly, they were betrayed often by women who noticed they (often native Frenchwomen sent in to perform espionage) did not exactly have enthusiastic attitudes about the occupiers. The women themselves, nearly all highly intelligent emigres, had no clue about the natures of their fellow Frenchwomen. Nearly all were captured, tortured, and murdered. Many of their betrayers were indeed the mistresses of the local Nazi officials who noticed them (as first competition, then spies). That’s for women sent in “cold” rather than networks that had been already rolled-up as the British did in their homeland.
[The same record is true of the Channel Islands, where British women unreservedly surrendered to the Nazi occupiers. Something the British don't like to talk about but nevertheless is true.]
I shouldn’t have to explain the obvious to you:
http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Everyday-Life-Vichy-France/dp/0521899443
I would be shocked if most attractive women did not sleep with Germans, if nothing else to protect male relatives from being sent to forced-labor in Germany for munitions, or protection from the Milice. In fact, they did.
Willard you’re naive, White Knighting, and totally unrealistic about Occupied Europe and France and the Netherlands in particular. Fact is — the Resistance was mostly Hollywood and French myth. Nearly everyone collaborated, in one form or another, and it’s understandable. I don’t blame women for doing what they had to in order to survive. but the legacy was unmistakable.
Fastest way to get divorce rate down and thus eliminating a hell of a lot of childhood trauma would be for the father to get presumption of custody. As the women on this board have demonstrated, they generally have maternal instincts and will not want to be away from their kids. With presumption of father as custodial parent, most women (or at least a hell of a lot of them) will think twice before filing for divorce.
All true. Would never happen, though.
Even in societies where women get no money from the husband in the event of divorce, the kids still go with the mother (who then returns to her parents’ house).
So the one element of biologically grounded tradition that works in their favor – kids stay with the mother – feminists use. Around this, they build their whole bullshit edifice of ‘the kids living standard must not go down’, which means the mother’s does not go down, which means the father’s goes down 80%.
About the male revolt: It is here, just not ballyhooed.
In my own family I have:
1. Men who marry women who work at the same income level. Point: In a divorce, no need for alimony.
2. Men who marry and refuse to have children.
3. Men who refuse to marry and refuse to support their long time girlfriend.
This all means no or few children. This means the death of my family. Too bad. But, that is the inevitable result of our system. I am learning Spanish and could easily adapt to Islam.
In indo the man does get the kids. They are his. Yea I would think it would definetly cut down on divorce.
By contrast, in Norway, with a more rural population less under the thumb of Germans, interaction and submission to the occupiers by their women was much, much less. Alone of the Western nations, Norway had an active and competent resistance movement capable of sabotaging, for example, German heavy water manufacture. Critical for their nuclear program. Terrain favored that, Norway is a bunch of small cities, lots of farms and villages spread out, lots of mountains and snow and skiing. Very rugged.
Denmark is mostly flat and small, but (was) also rural. Less requirement to trade sex for food, which is what things amounted to in France and the Netherlands. There wasn’t much active armed resistance, but not much fraternization either.
Are most people as stupid and historically ignorant as Willard Libby? That’s a depressing prospect. That for most, history began at breakfast.
———————
Joel — Hispanic immigration is one sense parasitical, since it does not replace a failed system with a better one, but instead offers a culture and system even worse. You can learn all the Spanish you want, you won’t be La Raza. The Race. You can have all the Islam you want. You won’t be anything other than a follower unless you have tribal authority or create yourself a Big Man following like bin Laden or Zawahari.
There is not a choice of good and better, but bad and even worse. Even with all the failures of the gender gap, Western Society is still a better deal than Islam or the failed society of say, Mexico.
How so whiskey?
Where can I raise my own kids or at least be assured that they will still be mine and in my house for at least 18 years.
Not in the west is the answer.
Western Society is still a better deal than Islam or the failed society of say, Mexico.
Agreed about Islam; not knocking it, but it’s not for Western Man. It’s a harsh, angly desert religion.
Mexico? Fred Reed seems to like it there.
In my case, I still believe in America. As much of an oligarchic shithole as it is turning into.
In this recession, men are suffering more than women.
Expand the Army, and build high speed rail and public transport networks across the country.
DA has more spending money than the majority of people. Dam that is messed up.
With dad passing away, that is no longer true as mom hasn’t worked in over twenty years.
Obs 7/10 7:17 PM
Once again you exceed expectations. Best post on this thread.
Yes, force will be required. There will be more Darren Macks and Richard Shenkmans before the dust settles.
Thanks much.
We need to institute a 2 tiered marriage system.
scenario #1–all childless marriages are “no fault” can be dissolved at will by either party with no possibility of alimony, only splitting of jointly owned property, accounts, etc
Sad to hear about your dad.
You could prob get a job over here if you started applying to be contractor. Might help and there are dispatcher jobs maybe. If you get arrested you might get your head drilled. Life is not easy.
oops, hit enter
We need to institute a 2 tiered marriage system.
scenario #1–-all childless marriages are “no fault” can be dissolved at will by either party with no possibility of alimony, only splitting of jointly owned property, accounts, etc
–marriages with children are immediately converted at law to fault-only for 18 years, with additional years tacked on for each child. cohabitating couples are converted to fault-only married upon establishing paternity.
scenario #2–two actual tiers of marriage you can choose from–common no fault marriage and something like “covenant marriage”–covenant marriage would entail fault-only, mandated reconciliation period/counselling, with the children and any and all support monies going to the non vow breaking party, etc
most important–in no case can a woman abandon her marriage for no fault and take the kids and get child support
the sound of legs snapping shut all over the country would be deafening
Tood:
“o the one element of biologically grounded tradition that works in their favor – kids stay with the mother”
Sorry man, but that is wrong. This was changed in the late 19th century. It was a break with tradition. Then came the “tender years” doctrine when mommy is so soft and cuddly. Eventually comes the Fathers are wallets doctrine.
Another thing is that there is no biological basis for the current state of affairs. The only thing the mother is needed for, biologically speaking, is giving birth. After that wet nurses have been used even if mom is still around.
That is funny dana in all your situations there is still something about money. You must be a lawyer.
Well in indo where there is no penalty no money transfer and the father gets the kids. They still have no problem getting married. They almost always do get married and do not just cohabitate.
Sounds like proving fault would lead to a lot of money in everyones pockets but the ones getting divorced just like in no fault.
”””””””on July 11, 2009 at 10:58 pm cptnapalm
Tood:
“o the one element of biologically grounded tradition that works in their favor – kids stay with the mother”
Sorry man, but that is wrong. This was changed in the late 19th century. It was a break with tradition. Then came the “tender years” doctrine when mommy is so soft and cuddly. Eventually comes the Fathers are wallets doctrine.
Another thing is that there is no biological basis for the current state of affairs. The only thing the mother is needed for, biologically speaking, is giving birth. After that wet nurses have been used even if mom is still around.”””””””””””””””””’
Dam like whiskey says good to know history. It is also good to know the present though.
damages in divorce goes back in western civ. to at least rome gunny–i’m saying the AGGRIEVED spouse should get the damages, divorce should be like a broken contract. that’s in fact what marriage and divorce is in jewish law–the bride and groom sign a “Get” stipulating everything
Still not thinking of leaving what I have now to going under your system he he he
Islam is a harsh desert religion, completely unsuited for the European temperament. Like Judaism and Christianity in some ways.
From my perspective as a low IQ fool, Judaism and Islam seem similar to each other scope in terms of their structures (the role of Jewish rabbis and legal scholars seems similar to that of imams and other religious authority figures in Islam) and dietary rules when compared to Christianity, but the major difference is that Islam is a religion that is open to converts while Judaism is basically nearly impossible to join without begging and hard work.
Admittedly, the question remains if there is an equivalent of a Reform Judaism movement in modern Islam, a question that I will leave for those who are more competent in this field. Judaism sans these liberal reform movements seems like a quiet, insular version of Islam.
Exactly. You’d think that stay at home moms (if kids are in the picture) is what an ant-feminist would want.
The problem with stay at home mothers is that they go from being productive and income generation functions into income depleting functions that decline in value with each year out of the workforce. I’d suggest to anybody with a stay at home spouse to take out a very large life insurance policy along with generous disability insurance to ensure that in case of sickness or death, your wife and children can support themselves.
For beta males, once we found out women are capable of working, it was a dream come true since it frees us from taking up most of the burden as sole breadwinners, and lets us spend some of our money on stuff that we want.
In other words, to steal other men’s wives’s work for themselves. I can’t even for a split second imagine myself tolerating my wife having a male boss.
I guess your wife is going to stay at home then…
All parents fight from time to time. “Healthy” was never meant to be synonymous with “ensconced in bubblewrap.”
In contrast, I’ve argued that arguments basically create beta supplicants who see an upset mommy and daddy argue and conclude that doing whatever mommy says will stop arguments and make everybody happy.
Or maybe if a woman is worried about her kids that much she should just stay with their father?
Non-date’s mother basically followed that route and kicked the mortgage down to when her kids were in their early twenties. So she didn’t get alimony and child support, but he still ended up with a divorce.
“bad sex”
This is, in fact, the leading issue in divorces.
More proof for my Church.
I think Roissy should be mandatory reading for all women ages 17 and up. Can we get that legislated?
Yes, that way, women learn that alphas are for sex and betas are for non-sexual activities.
“The alphas are the ones who are pumping and dumping and not reproducing, so they are actually *losing* the evolutionary game, in a rather ironic way.”
I don’t think you can prove that.
Does the name Desmond Hatchett mean anything to you? You can bet your ass he never got one of his “Mollys” a 20-karat golden ring.
Women regard full-time, traditionally male style employment as a standard, to an extent such that raising children becomes a “sacrifice” of that standard.
Taking care of children generally doesn’t pay, and it certain distracts from career opportunities that can pay very well and offer a comfortable lifestyle that pays for nice stuff.
Irish Catholics in particular don’t keep much of the Church teachings and often marry out, lose both language (many of the immigrants of the 1840’s through 1880’s spoke Gaelic not English) and culture. Same for Germans, Poles.
I’m amazed that you see that as a problem given your desires for an assimilated American state. If anything, if it’s magically sad for the Irish to lose their native language and outmarry, then it’s magically sad for Mexicans or all those other modern immigrants groups to do the same.
Collaboration in France and the Netherlands was extensive
I’d argue that collaboration was extensive because a significant chunk of Europe believed in fascist policies. As far as I’m concerned, Petain is a sellout, and Laval should rot in hell, and anybody who supports them today is a traitor to the French “race”, and the immediate pre-war government was run by a Fifth Column of Nazi sympathizers.
Obs 6:25 PM
“None of these Men were getting laid. Their final act before flying those planes into the World Trade Center, was to spend the nite at titty bars getting lapdances and drinking whiskey.”
I don’t think that’s entirely correct. IIRC, Atta was not only married but had a couple of kids, as did some of the others. What puzzles me to this day is what kind of sick fuck would do that to his kids and leave them without a daddy (as someone who waited all too long myself to become one and whose autistic son is the most precious thing in my life)?
Nevertheless, you are right in general, and as you pointed out before, when all too many guys are denied pussy, you get the Congo or Somalia.
— From my perspective as a low IQ fool
If you gonna be a clown, at least be funny. You know I’m not one of the aspie IQ obsessives around here. (Except when I like pointing out that Siggie has middling-level IQ.) Especially since your comment on religions was pretty intresting.
— The problem with stay at home mothers is that they go from being productive and income generation functions into income depleting functions
Ever had a woman (except your mom) have a hot dinner waiting for you after you come home from work?
— In contrast, I’ve argued that arguments basically create beta supplicants who see an upset mommy and daddy argue and conclude that doing whatever mommy says will stop arguments and make everybody happy.
It’s hard to be objective about this because everyone grew up with his own experiences. I say that avoiding any arguing in front of the kid shelters them with a “niceville” attitude toward life and makes them beta.
It’s best when there is a balance between the parents when they argue, rather than one side always bludgoning the other.
— Collaboration in France and the Netherlands was extensive
I bet that every young Wermacht officer candididate school graduate in the winter of 1943 prayed as he awaited his orders “please let it be France, Denmark or Holland, please let it be France, Denmark or Holland.”
because a significant chunk of Europe believed in fascist policies
The U.S. too. What do you think FDR was, if not a fascist?
The mother of all stories regarding sexual frustration goes back to June 1914 when ArchDuke Ferdinand and his wife visited Sarajevo.
They were assascinated by a dweeb named Gavrilo Princip. He was involved in a half-hearted cabal to murder Austrian Imperial representatives for the sake of youthful hyjinks and Serbian Independence.
Mainly, though, he just wanted to impress his girlfriend so that she would sleep with. The night before the Imperial visit she rejected him. So the next day, he went ahead and started WW1.
”””””””””””’Sestambi,
I don’t think that’s entirely correct. IIRC, Atta was not only married but had a couple of kids, as did some of the others. What puzzles me to this day is what kind of sick fuck would do that to his kids and leave them without a daddy (as someone who waited all too long myself to become one and whose autistic son is the most precious thing in my life)?””””””””””””””””””
Someone who could think beyond themselves to things like divorce law and how he wants other kids to maybe have there daddies around.
Other cultures, even in the West, do not share that view, probably because their understanding of marriage is more realism than it is Disney.
I suspect that this Disnified view of marriage may explain why Americans are against gay marriage. When you view marriage as a financial and business transaction, then allowing gays to marry or have similar rights in a slightly different and named package doesn’t seems as wrong since it’s simply an extension of that business arrangement to others.
Mind you, I’m still at a loss as to why Americans view marriage in such a Disnified way.
FDR;
With all due respect, I think one of the remaining secrets from the 2ndWW period is the degree to which FDR was a red-sympathizer. He positively wanted the USSR to prosper. In his way, he was fully a US patriot but like many people in his closet circle was more than a little enamored with hard-core Marxism.
I don’t think there is a whole lot of difference between hard-core Marxism and fascism, but for the degree of nationalization of the industries. And that fascism is generally associated with nationalism and marxism with internationalism.
But the centralization of power, the heavy-handedness with the judiciary, the militarism, the “public works,” the cult of personality, under FDR, differed from Franco’s or Mussolini’s only by the amount of power-grabbing that the American political system would allow him to get away with. And his declining health.
DA said:
“From my perspective as a low IQ fool, Judaism and Islam seem similar to each other scope in terms of their structures (the role of Jewish rabbis and legal scholars seems similar to that of imams and other religious authority figures in Islam) and dietary rules when compared to Christianity, but the major difference is that Islam is a religion that is open to converts while Judaism is basically nearly impossible to join without begging and hard work. ”
True enough, I’ll admit as one born to the Tribe. Big problem for us is not the hoops through which prospective converts have to jump, but that all too many of us already there no all too little about our own faith.
Gunny, one of the big beefs European, Canadian, and US Muslim men have is the difficulty in finding “proper” Muslim women to marry. Most marriages in Islamic society take place as a negotiation between supplicant groom and the father of the bride, with heavy bride prices. Women are scarce after all. This means of course that most women go to those with the most money, generally tribal or militia leaders.
Atta, IIRC was not married, but one of the 9/11 Conspirators who was part of the Hamburg cell was, and wished to back out. His fellows had to pressure him greatly, and convince him that his German non-Muslim wife was “not a proper Muslim wife” and so he would not be doing any “harm” by jihad.
Judaism as it is now practiced is very close to Christianity because like the New Testament, it’s filled with Greek humanism, not remarkable given nearly 300 years of Hellenistic rule over the Jews. Islam has no Greek humanism in it whatsoever, it is profoundly “Pagan” in an Arabian way, one completely alien to our Greek-Roman heritage.
DA — Obama is dead set against shovels and concrete. He worked with NOW to make the stimulus female-oriented and discriminating against men, particularly White Male construction workers and engineers.
”””””whiskey
Gunny, one of the big beefs European, Canadian, and US Muslim men have is the difficulty in finding “proper” Muslim women to marry. ””””””””
That does make sense given how hard it is to find a proper woman in those countries period. Where I go the men do not seem to be having a hard time finding wives even the poor men and even the poor men are getting a decent looking wife to marry as they are mostly decent looking as in fuckable with nice bodies.
Especially since your comment on religions was pretty intresting.
In this case, it was a proxy for stating that I’m a mere mortal delving into topics out of my forte. It’s similar to somebody saying they’re a “mere country lawyer”…
Ever had a woman (except your mom) have a hot dinner waiting for you after you come home from work?
No, but I’ve had numerous other women cook or bake for me after they’ve come home from work…
It’s hard to be objective about this because everyone grew up with his own experiences.
Our parents respective marriages have their own dynamics, and can help to explain why children take on certain habits. As an example, my cousin has basically noted that his mother’s perpetual screaming basically ensured that he found soft white women more attractive than black women.
The U.S. too. What do you think FDR was, if not a fascist?
My mother jokingly calls him “President for Life”. Mind you, other than his questionable attempts to jury-rig the Supreme Court, calling him a fascist is an insult to legitimate cases of fascist rule in the world. And as somebody who isn’t generally a big fan of federalism, I don’t see centralization as a massive evil, but merely the process of ensuring minimum standards nationwide.
I guess as far as the woman are concerned not doing so bad either as basically all of the guys have a six pack. Might go to what pa was talking about before when the guys in the us in the past would have been more alpha as in more in shape.
Obama is dead set against shovels and concrete.
So please explain the $27.5B for highway and bridge construction, $8B for intercity passenger train capital projects, $1.5B for mass transit projects, and $4.6B for the Army Corps of Engineers?
Whiskey, male unemployment is high due to the fact that the bubble was concentrated in home and commercial construction, finance, and manufacturing. Female unemployment is stunted somewhat since women are employed in fields such as education and healthcare which have been somewhat safe during this economic downturn. Mind you, that’s no comforting factor to whoever is employed, whether they are male or female.
Plus, the extended male unemployment is going to have ripple effects if males aren’t contributing to their families which suppresses female spending. My mom’s friend owns a hair salon, and she’s had to reduce hours and lay off her staff since revenues are down considerably. Of course, you wish for a magical world where women lose all their jobs and marry crave beta males, but if both beta males and women are unemployed, it only makes the alphas even more attractive as protectors.
Re: PA
I suspect that our perspectives are skewed due to our respective ethnic backgrounds. You grew up in a broken, poorly run Communist state, and transcribe your experiences to liberalism run amok. In contrast, from my parents, Haiti was the evil society that didn’t have a magical liberal state to save the country and fix it. I’ve noted that my Russian friend has similar political views while my godmother who fled Haiti due to the Duvalerist revenge killings against the mulatto classes in the mid-1960s solidified her leftist viewpoint.
More whores than ever before.
Women are sluts, exhibit # 432691:
http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-seven-sexual-partners-that-dont-have-to-count/?obref=obinsite
whiskey, I must disagree with this statement:
“Islam has no Greek humanism in it whatsoever, it is profoundly “Pagan” in an Arabian way, one completely alien to our Greek-Roman heritage.”
–Many Islamic philosophers were heavily influenced by Greco-Roman thought; the old canard about the classics being reintroduced to the west via Islam is very very true.
For example, the Ottoman Empire buffered around the old Byzantine Empire for centuries, but never fully conquered till the 15th Century, partyl because of the high respect Islamic scholars held of the Byzantine scholars, who often exchanged ideas with their Islamic counterparts and transmitted Greek thought to them for digestion. The respect allowed the Byzantine empire ot exist as a vassal state for a long period of time when others were swallowed up.
The Islamic empires, being mediterranean based, also dealt with the Greek-Roman vestiges all around them. Ptolomy, Archimedes, Plato, and Aristotle, not to mention hellenistic art and science, were at the base of the nations they conquered, and held in high esteem
Moorish spain is a classic example, where Maimoindes began the first fusion of Hellenistic and Abrahamic thought while under Islamic rule; nor was this Jewish scholar isolated from Islam; indeed, his ideas were often created after exchanges with Islamic thinkers.
The strains of Islam we see in world news today are a far cry from either those mid-2nd millenium Islamic thinkers nor the more intellectual kind found in places such as Egypt and India today. It would be like claiming that Christianity has no roots in Greco-Roman thought by viewing only snake-handlers in the isolated rural south and the “christianity” of Jeremiah Wright.
Lurker comes out swangin. What up dog so growing up in hood I suppose we do get some rougher edges but still retain the whiteness lol
@lurker:
The only valid point in that article might be a genuine rapist. I don’t think that counts as a sexual partner. (Please, let’s not cue another discussion about the semantics of rape; I think we’ve established what rape is.)
I don’t know any women that operate by that criteria.
Aside: When someone asks you how many partners you have, do you make a distinction between people where only oral has been exchanged and people who you have actually had intercourse with? This isn’t a personal problem, but I asked a male friend, and he told me his number varies depending on what you count.
This may have been poignant:
The beginning of the quiet revolt while still having sex.
””””””””””””””’joel
About the male revolt: It is here, just not ballyhooed.
In my own family I have:
1. Men who marry women who work at the same income level. Point: In a divorce, no need for alimony.
2. Men who marry and refuse to have children.
3. Men who refuse to marry and refuse to support their long time girlfriend.
This all means no or few children. This means the death of my family. Too bad. But, that is the inevitable result of our system. I am learning Spanish and could easily adapt to Islam.”””””””””””
Just save money dude and you can move anywhere.
“I don’t know any women that operate by that criteria.”
If you know a woman, then you know a woman that operates by those criteria or ones quite like them.
Lurker
I agree with your history presentation but, as we all know, major religions consistently have 1. the teachings of the founder(s) and 2. the much more voluminous commentaries on the meaning and implications of those foundation teachings.
I think it is the Koran itself that is lacking the influence of Greek thought. For Islamic fundamentalists, the Koran is not just the foundational teaching of Islam – Allah speaking thru the Prophet – but (they believe) the validity of the text is undiluted by problems of historicity, translation, or authorship. So when push comes to shove, the structure of the Greek influenced commentaries is uniquely vulnerable to fundamentalism.
PA:
Actually, this did happen in the Balkans under the Turks. A few months ago, on some Bosnian humor website I saw the picture of a store window in Sarajevo with a sign saying: “Ramadan special – beer on sale!” That’s what you get when you spread Islam among Slavs.
Yea the bosnian and macedonian muslims do not seem strict in religion. More liberal he he he
S.
The quandary of how many sex partners to admit to is deeply silly. No one tells the truth even under oath. It would be wrong to do so, imho. Most people I know have secrets that they have good reasons to keep and I do not want to be the reason they cannot keep them.
IOWs, there are some things that a Gentleman or a Lady do not discuss with just anybody, even if they have a lawbook.
@Gunslingergregi- “aoefe has ruined me completely”
Awwww, but you guys set me straight that’s the real story. You should be pleased I was open to hearing you, not disappointed in me. If your wife says something contrary to your opinion, it will be and I’m sure has been your job to steer her different. You won’t hold it against her I know. So?…
On another note I came in second in the poker party tonight. I had mostly crappy hands but a couple full house dealie-o-so’s and I recouped most of my chips. Whoot! We girls don’t play for money we played for laughs – good times, good times…
Yea I only had one I was a virgin when I met my second wife.
That is cool actually.
Yea you have been tested. You kept alluding to wanting to be and now you have. I give you the red badge of honor.
We’ve made contact. MSM, albeit only a fringe element, has picked up on the concept of “Marriage 2.0″.
Cathy Meyer, who is About.com’s divorce support guru, has used the term in her latest article.
http://divorcesupport.about.com/b/2009/07/10/marriage-2-0.htm
Based on the timing, the language used, and on mentioning “blogs by men” that she read, I suspect “first-contact” was through the WSJ Kay Hymowitz thread last weekend where a couple of us MGTOW’ers had made some good comments, including liberal use of the Marriage 2.0 term, and some links to some of the classic essays like Marriage=Fraud (by Rob Fedders).
The best part is, Cathy Meyer is inviting folks to discuss “what can be done about the future of marriage” right on her About.com comments thread.
Let’s keep pushing this term into the mainstream, as this is our IN to start fresh dialogue on some shitty current doctrines such “No-Fault Alimony”, Single-Custody, etc.
Yea aoefe sometimes guys get angry enough to kill your job is to remain calm in those circumstances and not to try and make them do it. Good job
@gunslingergregi
Yay!!
This is the WSJ thread where I suspect she ran into it:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124658294270189935.html#articleTabs%3Dcomments
Aeofe,
Scroll up to see my guidance on how you can make a difference, and do some good humanitarian work in this area.
Here’s my blog post discussed here:
Game, High-IQ, and “Success”
@ Obsidian:
No, I think you clearly miss the point buddy (see I can be passive aggressive too).
“he misses out on the key point, that A, we no longer live in a time when such sacrifices are sought *or appreciated*, and B, that the meaning of INDIVIDAL HAPPINESS has immense cache in our time”
Note you define success in a different way than I do, a SUBJECTIVE, culture-constrained way. The ONLY purpose of a species (or subspecies) is to propagate his genes. This is the mark of a successful species: high reproduction rates. What you say about individual happiness and sacrifices and the time we live in are orthogonal (and subjective) to the point. The only objective way to judge a species success is by looking at their evolutionary fitness.
It’s difficult to find exact material on this subject, but this is pretty good:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6113-elderly-crucial-to-evolutionary-success-of-humans.html
Title: Elderly crucial to EVOLUTIONARY SUCCESS
Later on in the article: “Caspari and Lee found a five-fold increase the number of individuals surviving into old age in the Early Upper Palaeolithic period – around 30,000 years ago. This coincides with an explosive POPULATION GROWTH of modern humans”
It’s clear that evolutionary success is defined by population growth. Also, see the term “fitness” defined as “leaving behind offpsring”.
From this basis, high-IQ persons are some of the most successful at (indirectly) reproducing their genes, which are shared by those in their extended family.
You can pontificate about individual happiness, but these are subjective measures of success (I could just as justifiably define “happiness” as complete celibacy and now all those nerds are the most “successful” or some people are only “happy” when boning trees, so now only those people are “successful”). The only valid objective judgment of a group is their ability to reproduce and spread. High-IQ people allow their “families” to spread much more than high-game people.
FUCK FRANKLIN D. ROSENFELD AND HIS JEW TREASURY SECRETARY HENRY MORGENTHAU JR.
FUCK FEMINISM
FUCK LIBERALISM
FUCK MASS IMMIGRATION AND MULTIRACIAL SOCIETIES
FUCK JUDEO-CHRISTIANITY, JUDEO-ISLAM, AND ALL OTHER NON-WESTERN/NON-WHITE SEMITIC SLUDGE RELIGIONS
FUCK ALL 3RD WORLD HELLHOLES (PLACES LIKE HAITI)
FUCK SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE IN MULTIRACIAL SOCIETIES – ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE
FUCK DEMOCRACY
RULE OF THE FITTEST
THE WORLD IS NOT FOR WEAK PEOPLE
You Know I Am Right
Fuck! The fucking fucker is fucked!
You know I am right,
That was a very interesting observation on the state of afairs in the world today and what we could do about it. We could apparently just start trying to procreate with everything in the known universe and that might just keep us busy enough to not have time to cause each other pain.
@tood
Yes, i saw your suggestions – very good ones, thanks.
””””””””””Ovid
Anybody see any gaps in this gender?””””””””””””
Yea that was a pretty good reason why we should get divorce laws changed he he he
@lurker
“More whores than ever before.”
That’s an interesting idea. However, I tend to think that the media and popular culture focuses mostly on women who don’t have high sexual values / standards and ignores the ones who do. I think you’d be surprised to find how many women in this country, especially younger ones in my own generation, who are actually sexually conservative. There are statistics suggesting the virginity or even an emphasis on abstinence is rising for the teenage/early 20s set.
I don’t think I ever exactly understood the idea here that all women are opportunistic (hate this next word) sluts.
@S.
re: # of sexual partners
I am not sure that is ever a question that should be answered by anyone. I don’t think I’d even want to know how many women a guy has slept with. But maybe it’s different from a girl’s point of view.
I wonder what the fascination is with the “number” on the guy’s end?
@David Alexander
“taking care of kids doesn’t pay…”
Is it not enough of a reward to have someone carry on your name? To raise someone and shape them into a great individual whose successes are influenced by your efforts and love?
OneSTDV,
This aint got anything to do w/whether either of us are passive or aggressive, its got errthing to do with the simple fact that in our time, any one of us can go and see for ourselves, high IQ Right Enders paying guys like Roissy BIG MONEY to learn how to pickup chicks. The. End. Its really as simple as that, and no amount of “objective reasoning” is gonna change these guys’ minds.
But hey, no problem, One-I’ll tell ya what-go to one of those seminars, and drop on em what you said here, and report back the results. I’m sure they’ll be a mass defection of such guys into your program.
Holla back, I can’t wait to hear the results.
The Obsidian
Blog post discussed: But hey, no problem, One-I’ll tell ya what-go to one of those seminars, and drop on em what you said here, and report back the results. I’m sure they’ll be a mass defection of such guys into your program.
“But hey, no problem, One-I’ll tell ya what-go to one of those seminars, and drop on em what you said here, and report back the results. I’m sure they’ll be a mass defection of such guys into your program.”
Again you miss the point. It doesn’t matter what these individuals want. We’re discussing whole societies, in this case: black vs. white. You keep claiming blacks have it better because they have more game and thus can attract more amounts of women than the average white. You also claim that the average black has it better than the average right-ender (or HBDer) because he scores more.
By making these statements, you imply that “success” is defined by ability to reproduce (you’ve even said this before, but I can’t find the quote). I say “success” isn’t actually dependent on ability for an organism to reproduce (a mistake many people make), but rather for their genes to be propagated. So high-IQers actually are more successful from an evolutionary standpoint (the only objective measure one can provide for a species) because their work propagates their genes through closely related kin.
Again, you mistake individual with his genes. Nautral selection acts on genes and sometimes this goes against a particular individual. So these men want to get action, but their low social skills prevent them from such. A trade-off exists which allows them to propagate their genes through intellectual innovation and improving their “extended family’s” reproduction rate.
You can talk all you want about frustrated nerds (and I don’t tihnk anything I say will convince them BTW), but because genes matter and not organisms, nature doesn’t really care about our happiness. And to judge “success”, we have to go by nature’s standards if you accept we’re part of the evolutionary chain as a species (who is still evolving anyway).
Basically, you define “success” as scoring because it puts blacks on top (I guess I’m not the only one motivated by personal attributes), but “scoring” doesn’t advance society, high-IQ people do, and species population/society advancement is what’s important.
Yes I admit it’s counterintuitive, but this is how natural selection works. It’s not going to mitigate the frustration of a bunch of nerds, but it shows that high-IQers are very successful in “reproducing” their genes, which is the primary goal of any species, including us.
Mistake in copying:
Blog post here: http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2009/07/game-high-iq-and-evolutionary-success.html
“I am not sure that is ever a question that should be answered by anyone. I don’t think I’d even want to know how many women a guy has slept with. But maybe it’s different from a girl’s point of view.
I wonder what the fascination is with the “number” on the guy’s end? ”
@dreamer –
It’s used as a proxy for gauging future likelihood of fidelity, and there certainly is a relevant correlation there, regardless of what women say.
nova; aoefe
I do not think the kids of divorce should live at the same standard they did while the woman remained married to her husband as a matter of right, or right so far as can possibly be achieved and the husband still have enough to live on.
It should be lower, and maybe much lower. Tough. What matters most for kids aside from the genes and decent nutrition are the beliefs and caring of their parents, and the sorts of friends their parents encourage / see that they have. Money only mostly figures into the later.
Nor do I think that any parent, gasp even any man, should be required to pay for the college education of his child, divorced or not, if the doesn’t want to. I think it should be up to him.
I think in essence that mothers and children should have to suck up to him to get these things from him voluntarily. I think it’s a woman’s job to keep her man happy. It’s part of her duty as a woman.
Sure there are men who will abuse this. We have a vast system of abusing men and divorce in this country the other way now.
No mandated child support above welfare levels. If that’s to poverty and harsh for the kids, if the mother with her contributions and efforts and her new man finding can’t do well enough, then let the father have custody. If he doesn’t want custody, then he’s gonna have to provide a bit more child support. To some mimimum acceptable level, but low.
Anything above that should be voluntary on his part. Might just encourage the ex wife to provide the kind of visitation he wants on his schedule in return for his money. And so on.
Just how it should work.
Mandated child support at welfare levels only. Bare minimum to save the state. Period.
Chose you men wisely women, and stay in marriages.
doug just hit on something important, the rise in federal child support collection law and activities coincided with clinton’s “ending welfare as we know it”
Nova; aoefe
I think I take back welfare levels of child support. I think I’d only agree to that in a messy political compromise. The point I’m trying to make, the revolution in thinking, is much clearer if I simply say NO MANDATORY CHILD SUPPORT PERIOD. No state extracted child support from the non custodial spouse, period.
If the divorcing mother can’t support the child well enough to not need welfare, then custody goes to the father. If he doesn’t want it, he’ll have to pay her enough to not need state welfare, IF AND ONLY IF she would otherwise qualify for it.
That’s it. Yes this is cleaner and better.
The principal is that if women want child support from men, they should have to earn it from them. That’s right women, fuck him for it. And other things probably. Wifely things. Entice him to want to give it. Keep him happy. Or marry or otherwise have kids with men who will want to provide child support voluntarily if she leaves him, or he leaves her. that will of course also encourage her to provide visitation according to how he wants it, and reliably, for that support check.
Or of course she could find a new man to help support her kids. If she can. And provide services to him to make him want to.
Divorce would plummet.
Indentured servitude of divorce with kids would end.
the importance and influence of provider men would greatly increase.
Oh and end all affirmative action for women immediately. Don’t clearly and unmistakenly discriminate against women in the workplace, but give men an edge, the choice when it’s a toss up, and so on, instead of the reverse. Do everthing possible in schools to have boys perform at THEIR best instead of only caring about girls doing so. If the two are in tension, favor the boys, but try to do the best for both.
Since we’re talking reform:
1. A divorce proceeding initiates automatic paternity testing. The outcome determines whether the father will provide child support at all.
2. There should be a lot less alimony. In the absence of kids, there should be zero alimony. “Living at the standard to which you’re accustomed” is a ridiculous standard. By definition, divorce is changing everybody’s standard of living in all kinds of ways. Certainly, if a woman initiates the divorce, she forfeits that right.
I am in favor of alimony for older women who have raised kids and get left for a “younger model.” At least part of our social unwinding is caused by men who leave their wives when the men get more successful. Really, why should a woman set aside her youthful desires if she’s just gonna get left when she’s older?
3. A man should support his biological children. But child support payments should entitle him to monitoring of his ex-wife’s finances. He has the right to make sure she’s dedicating the money to the child’s well-being. Men should have the option to set up trusts and the like for their kids in lieu of child support payments.
Mandy—
If we were married or living together Mandy, I’d be delighted for you to be spending my money (with prudent limits of course). I’d be happy for you to enjoy it and do it for both of us, and also for you alone.
I wouldn’t think you should have the right to if we broke up, or we divorced. If I left you for other than compelling reasons, I’d think you should have a right to a generous transition. Though I don’t at all think that if you just decided you wanted to look for something else, or cheated and refused to stop or had already lost love because of it, given the nature and import of women’s cheating.
Doug, outstanding recommendation; Dana, Keith and others also threw in good ideas.
But this is what makes me wonder — if amateur commenters on some blog are coming up with these great ideas, then why aren’t establishment professionals also coming up with them, and implementing them?
Probably because the status-quo, as unnatural, corrupt and corrosive as it is, suits their purposes. What other explanation is there?
Same for other things we discuss here (immigration, welfare, underclass management, et al.)
To twist Alexander Pope’s words, “whatever is, is how the powers-that-be want it to be.”
PA people with our worldview are excluded from the halls of power and influence. That’s why.
Is it not enough of a reward to have someone carry on your name?
Not really, especially if that name doesn’t live on to do anything important or become famous.
But maybe it’s different from a girl’s point of view.
It’s rather interesting that the girl I consistently neg at work had noted that there’s no value in being a slut. While I noted that in a theoretical sense, the slut would provide an easy lay for a sub-human male like myself, her concerns were in terms of being ridden with disease and the fact that the slut pretty much slept around with everybody including the losers as a sign of low rank.
BTW, at the age of 25 she is engaged* to a blue collar guy who makes sizable money playing with trains. Both live at home with their parents. I also suspect some jealousy from Athena over this girl…
*They’re white for racial comparison purposes. They probably will have babies, and yes, neither one is college educated.
OneSTDV,
Let’s put what I may or may not think about Black guys wrt Game on the side for a moment, because its very easy for that, one way or another, to sidetrack the discussion here, OK.
The point here is simple, One-the higher the IQ, the lower the social skills that are highly in demand in today’s New Grrl Order. Which means that said guys have an inherently harder time meeting, bedding and even wedding, Today’s Women.
If you kindly review Roissy’s remarks above, they tally quite well w/what I just said.
He has also raised a very difficult question-one of a culling of herds, via a kind of natural selection based on the tastes and interests of Today’s Women.
And when it comes to said choices, it means quite clearly, again, per Roissy’s comments above, that Right Enders are likely to be left out in the cold.
That’s the simple truth of it, OneSTDV. And no amount of attempting to spin it will change that fact.
Now, if you disagree with me, then you also disagree with Roissy’s analysis, too, and I’d love to know what he thinks of your Dawkins-based argument.
Thus far, it doesn’t seem to be working.
O
keith the leftie–
Yes a man should support his biological children if he’s bonded with them through parenting in a marriage that’s gone on long enough for that. But it should be entirely up to him, just as it is up to the custodial woman, how much he does and it what fashion.
I don’t even think he morally should support the one night stand or short fling baster children of sluts. They should be using backup birth control of the many varieties available, or abort. He should be able to chose to abort his parently responsilities just as she can decide to abort hers – and the fetus. At the very most he should have to reimburse the state for any welfare expenses she actually qualified for but no more. I feel similarly if a wife leaves a marriage when the kids are infants or almost. The right thinking alpha, or even beta, will want to start again with another family. She should not be able to put him into indentured servitude in a situation he would never remotely have agreed to had he known, as she can now.
One STD
From the point of view of a biologist, what you say about the centrality of gene penetration and expression makes perfect sense.
From the point of view of a horny guy, it makes no sense at all. I mean, if an idea or ideal does not lead to romps with eager females it will be seen as defective.
That is why the way OBs frames this issue is not ever going to be displaced by your science.
— people with our worldview are excluded from the halls of power and influence. That’s why.
Dana, I’d be satisfied with this explanation if “people with our worldview” were some ideological outliers. However, our worldview is shared by those in the halls of power. In their private lives, SWPLs are as traditional/paleo as we are in principle.
This is why I suspect that the elite aren’t operating in good faith. I really do think thre is an active warfare going on.
— Actually, this did happen in the Balkans under the Turks.
Yes, Vladimir, I totally forgot about Bosnians being whites with centuries of Islam. Not too familiar with Albanians. They look white to me, though I have no idea if they were Christian prior to the Turkish occupation of the Balkans.
— A few months ago, on some Bosnian humor website I saw the picture of a store window in Sarajevo with a sign saying: “Ramadan special – beer on sale!”
Not that’s the Islam I can get on board with! But seriously, I can see our Civilization appropriating some of its elements. Like fasting, piety, patriarchal/warlike attitudes. But other things, like polygamy, 5xday genuflection, and some of the theological mumbo-jumbo — naah. It’s an Arabian thing, tailored to their arid desert sensibilities.
We, on the other hand, are people of the receding ice age, the green forests, the rolling fields, and the alternating rhythm of snow and harveest. Not of sand, sun and scorpions.
— That’s what you get when you spread Islam among Slavs.
Heh, we fuck everything up, don’t we? and here they thought Communism failed because of its ideological flaws…
@Doug the poser
“Yes a man should support his biological children if he’s bonded with them through parenting in a marriage that’s gone on long enough for that. But it should be entirely up to him, just as it is up to the custodial woman, how much he does and it what fashion.”
A man should support his children, period. If they’re his kids, he’s on the hook. He has the right to make sure they actually receive the support, to the point of establishing a trust that the kids can access when they’re older, conditional on using the money in certain ways and meeting certain expectations. He should make sure his child support money exclusively supports his kids, and he’s got that right. But no, he doesn’t get out of supporting his own kids because their mother sucks. He has the right to limit her prsonal benefit from his money.
“I don’t even think he morally should support the one night stand or short fling baster children of sluts.”
Re-reading my post…yep, and the first point I made was that child support would be contingent on paternity testing. So now you’re just being aimlessly angry instead of actually addressing points.
that Right Enders are likely to be left out in the cold
To briefly jump into the conversarion, I think the correct argument is that moderately high intelligence is best for Game. Something like 95-120 IQ. Which covers a lot of black guys, and the vast majority of white guys.
Below 90 IQ, thre surely is a lot of fucking going on, but probably not with the kind of women I’d want anything to do with.
The “far Right Enders,” IQ over 135, are very few in existence, and they probably do have difficulty with poon. Being smarter than most people makes it difficult to relate to girls, and is correlated with introversion and overintellectualization.
There are some, very few, far Right Enders who are a complete package — huge IQ, plus good social skills and looks. The James Bond model.
“But this is what makes me wonder — if amateur commenters on some blog are coming up with these great ideas, then why aren’t establishment professionals also coming up with them, and implementing them?”
@PA –
Power politics.
The women’s groups would howl like banshees if any kind of sensible reform were to be made to family law. Heck, even the modest proposals that have been made in some states about shared custody being a rebuttable presumption and so on have been met with the fully funded force of NOW vociferously denouncing the legislation and making political threats to those who would support it. Why? Because the current regime favors women, and NOW and other groups will resist any changes away from that women-favoring regime.
The women’s groups would howl like banshees if any kind of sensible reform were to be made to family law.
But again, why do
women’slesbians’ groups have this power to begin with?Why not, say, Utah polygamists’ groups instead?
My suspicion is that the elite are using these ideologies as useful tools in deconstructing society. In otehr words, if NOW and such all disappeared today, there would still not be any family law reforms.
Dunno, but an interest group that represents 50%+ of the population is a bit of a different story than one that represents a tiny group like polygamists in Utah.
Ideals and Sex
I truly believe that very few people consciously live their lives with the moral values of a nihilist. In the deepest sense, it would be natural to even try to do that.
Generally speaking, people have strongly felt ideals which they live up to – to some degree or the other.
And they want to get laid. If they are young guys, that matters in a non-trivial way.
What happens, then, when a generation of guys grows up trying to live according to the ideals they have been taught by all their elders (beta-ish nice guy norms) and are treated to the spectacle of the hot young women of their generation rather conspicuously rejecting their sort of guy and copulating more or less publically with an anti-ideal sort of guy?
When this happens, the ideals will be rejected. Gene talk or altruism talk will get nowhere in stopping this.
@PA
“The “far Right Enders,” IQ over 135, are very few in existence, and they probably do have difficulty with poon. Being smarter than most people makes it difficult to relate to girls, and is correlated with introversion and overintellectualization.
There are some, very few, far Right Enders who are a complete package — huge IQ, plus good social skills and looks. The James Bond model.”
I’m a right-ender, and from my perspective, it’s more a late bloomer thing. Social skills might come less naturally at first, but they’re not hard to learn. Alcohol helps, too.
I also increasingly suspect that there’s a more continuous autism spectrum than we realized, and research now indicates that even regular (non-savant) autistics are faster at problem solving than regular people.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616121339.htm
So a couple of ticks down the autism spectrum will make you smarter in some dimensions and less socially skilled. It’s also associated with more pre-natal testosterone.
My own digit ratio is consistent with this.
PA–
It’s not such a very few. Lots of guys on the front, people side, or trading side of Wall St. for example have IQs in the 130-145 range and do well with girls. Often not enough time to rack up the really big numbers and maybe not so focused on that either, but quick pulling of hot babes yes. Same is true of some lawyers. A minority but there are definitely the aggressive, good with women types, in addition to the nerdier lawyer types. Lots of sales and some finance fast riser types in techier or new economy types of business as well. Again, not most of the men in big corps for damn sure, but oftent he ones that rise fastest.
PA–
An extreme of example of the high T high IQ type is Ari Gold on Entourage.
He would never have a wife that looks like his on that show. He would also never be entirely faithful to her. Though he might if Jewish do some of the kissing up to her that Ari does — to get away with cheating, which she would suspect but leave alone.
@Doug
Certainly many Wall Street firms like people who can apply abstract probability to actual situations:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/drw-trading-interview-questions
— I’m a right-ender, and from my perspective, it’s more a late bloomer thing. [Keith]
I can relate to this. Contrast my “then” anecdote in this thread (strip club in Kentucky) with “now” (commuter train last week)
— Lots of guys on the front, people side, or trading side of Wall St. for example have IQs in the 130-145 range and do well with girls
Good point Doug.
This is why I suspect that the elite aren’t operating in good faith. I really do think thre is an active warfare going on.
One could argue that it’s two different approaches:
- Your failure as a white person to become a member of the upper classes isn’t due to genetics, but merely due to your laziness and lack of hard work given the opportunities that white people have. It’s the crypto-white nationalist stream of SWPLism.
- You’re not like me, so you’re not white and this barely discernible from the black guy, and thus I have no real reason to support your interests and quite frankly, I’d much rather have my profits and run since Tahiti is always nice and currencies are always convertible. This is the elitist stream of SWPLism.
Not that’s the Islam I can get on board with!
I’m almost tempted to say that just even considering that thought makes you a traitor Western civilization. Besides, high IQ and warlike attitudes kinda lead to the nasty situation that your grandfathers dealt with in the early 1940s…
PA,
“But seriously, I can see our Civilization appropriating some of its elements. Like fasting, piety, patriarchal/warlike attitudes.”
Remember, Christianity came long before Islam. All these elements among others were present in Christianity long before Islam. It’s called Medieval Catholicism. A lot different from the “Hallelujah” holy roller evangelicals, and the lesbian “spiritual” Unitarians, I know, but it did exist and there still are remnants today in the West.
thecunt formerly known as anony upchucked:
A man and wife enter a marriage. Over the course of the marriage, one of them (either gender) sacrifices direct income, networking opportunities, continuing education opportunities, retirement benefits, full vestment, promotions, and endures unfavorable geographic relocations. The marriage dissolves. How would you regard the one who made the sacrifices?
did someone hold a gun to their head?
ps i wrote about reforming the divorce theft industry here:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/05/15/hero/
you may want to bone up on the material before spewing your tepid runny shit here ad nauseum.
pps you will forever be a filthy lowlife self-centered cunt until you are ready to retract your statement in favor of paternity fraud aka female rape.
ppps just how guilty do you feel for putting your medical career ahead of your husband and children, driving them both away?
Keith–
On who’s hook? The feminist state’s child support=alimony for any high or reasonably high earners hook?
Absolutely not.
He has the right to abort that one night stand or short sex fling mistake just as much as she does. He shouldn’t be able to physically abort the child, or give it away for adoption, if she doesn’t want to, and wants to keep it, but she shouldn’t be able to put him into indentured servitude at her discretion. He should be able to abort his parently rights by notifying her of that in a timely fashion after she notifies him of her pregnancy.
Actually his abortion of responsibility should be assumed, unless she gets a signed agreement from him to the contrary. There could be a simple form, obtainable at office supply stores or downloadable online, that’s been predetermined to be legally binding. Simple. Or could be.
— It’s the crypto-white nationalist stream of SWPLism.
There is a “prune the rosebush” strain in Leftism. As though their efforts to toss lesser whites to mix with the brown masses is a kind of racial purification campaign.
Of course, the SWPLs are destroying their own habitat in the process.
— I’m almost tempted to say that just even considering that thought makes you a traitor Western civilization.
Geez David, it was a joke.
keith the beta:
I’m a right-ender
standards have really taken a tumble.
So a couple of ticks down the autism spectrum will make you smarter in some dimensions and less socially skilled. It’s also associated with more pre-natal testosterone.
My own digit ratio is consistent with this.
so you’re autistic, then? explains a lot. tell me, do you bang your hand against your head when a girl walks past? do you definitely fart when a girl talks to you?
@Roissy the o m e g a:
“so you’re autistic, then? explains a lot. tell me, do you bang your hand against your head when a girl walks past? do you definitely fart when a girl talks to you?”
Nah, I just write a blog where I pretend to be an alpha male while spying on strangers.
@Doug
So if abortion weren’t allowed, you’d be in favor of child support off of one-night stands?
If a dude fathers a kid, he has to support it. And in such a way so it minimizes the chances that taxpayers will ever have to support it. So that implies support well above the welfare minimum, and a visitation/monitoring of funds obligation.
HAHAHAHAHA Roissy really got to you this time you autistic looser!
Keith,
please explain to me why a man has to support children he begets at ALL in the face of:
a) unilateral abortion
b) female contraception
c) women being able to work freely
and don’t say “or welfare will have to”
because there is no reason a voluntary single mother should get one thin dime of public money either
Keith
So, if a woman conceives a child must she bear it and do her part to support it?
I mean, two drunk people in bed on a Saturday night. What is the difference in terms of choices made?
And if a young mom does not want to keep the responsibility of maintaining a newborn she can leaver at the firestation and walk away. No CS taken from her by the state.
Please explain the fairness in this.
@Dana
“a) unilateral abortion
b) female contraception
c) women being able to work freely”
We all know these things going in.
“and don’t say “or welfare will have to””
But it will
“because there is no reason a voluntary single mother should get one thin dime of public money either”
Preventing feral children a la City of God’s a pretty good reason for a social interest in making sure kids get support.
There is a “prune the rosebush” strain in Leftism. As though their efforts to toss lesser whites to mix with the brown masses is a kind of racial purification campaign.
In theory, it has benefits both sides. It spread the “superior” genes of whites into “inferior” non-whites which should improve their genetics and make them more compatible, while it leaves whites as a purer and higher IQ group without the embarrassing lower classes. It’s a win-win situation unless you’re into ethnic or racial purity and solidarity for any race.
“And if a young mom does not want to keep the responsibility of maintaining a newborn she can leaver at the firestation and walk away. No CS taken from her by the state.”
And the CS also then isn’t taken from the Father.
“Please explain the fairness in this.”
Is it completely fair? No. I totally agree that things have gone too far in terms of unfairness to men in many cases, to a point where it makes kids worse off.
But children and an imperfect world still force us away from perfect fairness.
We all know that fucking around has its price.
Keith–
The primary job of women is to bear and raise children, in any non supremely decadent society.
Anything else is social suicide and should be overthrown by revolution. This is far more important than mere democracy for example, esp. one that gives women as well the right to vote.
Part of doing so now and always has been attracting and keeping a man with both good genes and good providing ability. In our modern age, created overwhelmingly by men, women can also contribute to wherewithal not just for survival but for various sorts of better living and luxury. they can even do so without the affirmative action they’ve been mistakenly and don’t deserve.
Still however, if they want to continue to secure child support help from a man, they need to continue to provide him services. First and foremost sex. Enough and good enough sex. Otherwise they should have no right to child support from that man. They should have to earn it, through sex and other wifely duties, apportioned according to the relative provisioning and mutual agreement.
In a society that has decided on complete divorce freedom, then there should also be no legal requirement for ongoing state coerced child support. The current system is indentured servitude for men upon marriage or otherwise having children, optional for the woman anytime she wants to divorce (or not marry the man she wishes to extract child support from).
Women should have to earn child support from a man. That’s their second most important job. Yes that’s right, pleasing the man they want to entice to provide ongoing child support. That’s part of a woman’s job. Of course a man needs work to be pleasing too, or it won’t work. But in our society, it’s women reforming back that’s what’s important to restrengthen families.
It’s women and feminism (and it’s emasulating effect on men who’ve been willing or coerced to pay attention to it — whites and some asians esp. in the upper half of the SES) that are the problem. Not American male beastliness, and so on.
I’m not speaking of every woman. There can be extraordiary ones who don’t have children or make a complete hash of it which can be forgiven because they discovered radium or something, but I am talking about the great bulk of cases. After all, a man could have discovered radium a year later or something anyway.
That still in modern times leaves plenty of room for a career, though that should be secondary, in the great bulk of cases. In any non supremely decadent society that doesn’t deserve to be overthrown by revolution.
In theory, it has benefits both sides.
Except the 85% of whites who are designated feed for morlocks.
And the 15% of SWPLs who lose their habitat.
It spread the “superior” genes of whites into “inferior” non-whites
Actually, it wouldn’t be inconsistent with your views to promote non-white women getting artificially (or naturally) inseminated with white medical students’ sperm, with the resulting kids being cared for by gelded non-white men.
Keith–
There’s still adoption.
That used to be far more common when women didn’t usually get child support for casual sex babies and suffered the stigma should suffer for having a child outside of marriage. That is, outside of a time honored institution that provides that women do get support, but also owe, yes that’s right owe, as in are obligated, to give their husband sex and give it best efforts too. (If he doesn’t also make good and reasonably skilled efforts, her best efforts are unrealistic though.)
I actually do support Islam on this, to feminist horror. Stuff it feminists.
Interesting to read the posts of some here in relation to me and OneSTDV’s exchange wrt the Game Bell Curve.
First off all, it’s important that we try not to muddy the water here. We’re not talking about high functioning relatively high IQ guys on Wall St. By definition, these are “people person” guys, because working in finance demands that you deal w/other people, quite a bit. Its how deals are made.
No, what we’re talking about are the high IQ guys who’s number exceeds 150-the exact opposite of the Left Enders in extremis who are Black that HBDers are so obsessed with. They say there are real problems inherent and intractable, in such people. I say the exact same thing about the extreme Right Enders.
The notion that there are more of one kind that the other is irrelevant, when one takes into account that you don’t need a lot of disaffected Right Enders to do a lot of damage to your society; you only need a handful. By definition, they can do lots of damage.
And in ways much more profound than their hard-Left Ending counterparts could ever do, yes?
So…why is it so very hard for focus-like a laser beam-on this very real problem? The more we rely on these guys, and the more the New Grrl Order exists, the more this problem will loom larger over our lives.
Comments?
O
Hence the in theory portion of my statement. Mind you, I view white in different contexts. It can be a race, a wider civilizational complex, and a reference to the elite. So while you maybe white in terms of race, you and I are both white in terms of civilization, and in terms of the elite many others including you are not white.
what we’re talking about are the high IQ guys who’s number exceeds 150
How many of those exist?
In the blog world, Mencius Moldbug is the only one I know who is likely over 150 IQ. And he is married and has a child.
“By definition, these are “people person” guys, because working in finance demands that you deal w/other people, quite a bit. Its how deals are made.”
No, they don’t have to be.
The fact is, your Ari Gold-types and high-powered Wall Streeters probably weren’t that great with women during their early youth. They’re getting the big ego boost from their social status and money, and plenty of women like social status and money.
“No, what we’re talking about are the high IQ guys who’s number exceeds 150-the exact opposite of the Left Enders in extremis who are Black that HBDers are so obsessed with.”
Now you’re moving the goalposts. We’re getting into such a tiny fraction of the population that it’s irrelevant. 150 IQ guys never had it so good with women, regardless.
It wouldn’t shock me if Asians and Indians have a tougher time, but it looks like High-IQ white guys come out fine.
Keith
It’s not a matter of not being entirely fair to men. It’s extremely unfair to men, at the option of women. Yes the CAN make good wives and stay with their husband through thick and thin, and built him up. Or the can chose the feminist/conserv. chivalrous option of walking away and extracting enormous child support sometimes including college after 4 years of marriage and 2 kids he barely knows (cause they’re infants and that’s naturally in all societies womnen’s work).
She shouldn’t have that option. To walk away, I suppose, she should have. Hard to put that genie back in the bottle for the not so religious once it’s out. However it should come at a big financial cost to her and her children, and not to her husband. If she can do fine by herself, ok. Not ideal but ok. Or she can (or has) attracted a replacement lover and child supporter. But she shouldn’t have the option of placing her husband in indentured servitude.
If the kids are older at point of her divorce departure, most men will want to keep fathering them and supporting them. More directly than through her in most cases I’d think, which is good. He’s certainly automatically get a lot of say on how his money is spent, as you advocate Keith. No elaborate new bureaucracy needed this way either . Dad will take care of the checking, and decision making, about his own money. Oh, and he’ll get the child visitation he wants more on his schedule this way, in return for his money. Much better, and fairer. She has to do at least SOMETHING to keep getting money from the man she left.
She’d also be a lot less likely to leave him. Divorce would plummet.
— you and I are both white in terms of civilization,
Here is my concession/compliment to you: I wouldn’t say “aw, shit” if I saw you moving in next door to me. In fact, I’d look forward to bullshitting with you over trains and French music.
— and in terms of the elite many others including you are not white
That’s kind of a complicated thing, The current white elite is a sick thing, and I know one or two REAL elites in person. A good buddy of mine (white American guy) married a daughter of an ultra-SWPL family.
He is a bit like me: smart with proleish tendencies, professional but nor high-end, politicaly incorrect, with a track-record of underachieving. And also a very charming and decent guy, who won over his future father-in-law.
Well, this father-in-law is one of the aforementioned “real” elites. I’ve been to his housel and understand the kind of bubble that his world is.
And I certainly picked up on his very restrained, but unmistakeable, sense that he is a very diferent kind of person than me.
I’m not sure if his kind considers my kind a “wasted potential” wayward cousin (due to my being white and non-white trash yet not not being elite), or as a benighted specimen who properly occupies a lower rung in the natural order of things.
She already did. She married you, gave up her freedom, her life, and her body to having your children.
[editor: was someone holding a gun to her head? you are not very bright. have you shot yourself in the labia yet, as i advised you to do?]
She carried them and delivered them and accepted the horrors of pregnancy and did you a favor and had your kids. Women are not required to reproduce for you or anyone else and you should be kissing her feet if she chooses YOU to have them with.
It would be one thing if you were just about good family values, but you’re not. You think men should be able to do whatever they want and get whatever they want while the woman suffers. That’s why we needed required child support in the first place. From “trusting” men to do what’s right.
Not a traiter but anti slavery
That Frisky article about women keeping score. Pretty sick.
But, my view is that EVERYBODY lies about their sex life, usually for a good reason.
“She’d also be a lot less likely to leave him. Divorce would plummet.”
@doug1 –
Yes. Divorce would also plummet if we flipped custody to being presumed shared/joint custody. If women didn’t know they could take the kids with them almost automatically, far fewer of them would opt for divorce.
“was someone holding a gun to her head?”
Nobody held a gun to anybody’s head. They both decided to have a kid.
[editor: in other words, she didn't give up her freedom or her life, as single dumb mom asserted, nor was she forced into any decision to have kids. glad to see you agreeing with me. ps when you have an autistic tard flare-up do you count paper clips? just wondering.]
They’re both on the hook. She’s still going to care for the kid and demonstrate fitness as a parent (and this should be enforced more than it is). He still has to help support the kid.
The child creates obligations for both.
If you can’t support a kid on your own to the orphanage it goes.
Really though what is the big deal. The state should pick up the tab on these children with one parent. That should just be a benefit to being an american. There are not so many anymore might as well throw you poor fucks a bone at least.
[editor: the state picking up the tab on these children of single moms is exactly the reason why the country is in the mess it is. let them starve.]
Just like people talk about welfare well the guy who goes on it gets 115 dollars. Not really gonna be getting rich off that.
If that encourages woman to divorce so be it. They should be allowed free choice but they shouldn’t be allowed to infringe on a mans free choice. If they can’t think far enough to see the benefits of having two people raising a child which are numerous then yea they should get to live on 300 bucks a month or so and be given all the baby food and baby clothes they need.
“They both decided to have a kid. ”
@keith –
See that’s where you’re wrong.
They both decided to have *sex*.
Only the mother gets to decide whether to “have a kid”, and she gets to unilaterally impose that, and all of the obligations it entails, on the man she had sex with simply because he decided to have sex with her. That’s where the injustice lies.
Sure, give women power to decide about pregnancies because they are the incubators. But that decision should NOT automatically result in support obligations for the man unless the woman can demonstrate a mutual intent to create a child, and not just a mutual intent to have sex.
@roissy
1). I read your ideas on divorce laws and would agree on eliminating no-fault. However, the financial sacrifices made by (typically) women must be acknowledged in the event of a divorce.
[your worst enemy: she had a free choice. if she didn't want to risk financial ruin in the event she initiates a divorce, she could have chosen not to have kids. in such a case she is entitled to nothing from the man.]
side note: more manufacturing jobs have been lost to robots than to China.
[and more blue collar jobs have been lost to illegal immigrants.]
2) as I recall, your support for MPT: use OPM to bring in the power of big Daddy government to insult all women at a time of postpartum vulnerability and surging hormones. As that Alaskan philosopher, Sarah Palin, stated, “Don’t mess with momma Grizzley.”
[so you wish to continue being known as the filthy lowlife cunt. very well then. it's in the record that you are a supporter of paternity fraud aka female rape, your feeble and transparantly self-serving bleatings on behalf of women's "portpartum vulnerability" to the contrary notwithstanding. leave it to a cunt such as yourself to overlook 18 years of enslavement to a nonbiological bastard child as less harmful than hurt feelings from a mandatory paternity test universally administered at the time of birth. you are a fucking cunt through and through, and i hope a bus runs over your head. i will laugh. ps sarah palin is an idiot, and you are an even bigger idiot for quoting her.]
Private PT is already available to you.
["private counsel is already available to you."]
3) The hubby and kids are doing fine, but thanks for the interest. I’l be sure to include you on the Christmas letter mailing list.
[i'd rather you didn't. but you know what would be a great christmas gift from you? your head smashed under a bus tire. ps say hi to the estranged hubby and kids for me. hope that medical lab drone career was worth missing all those special moments in your kids' lives.]
“glad to see you agreeing with me. ”
It’s important to you.
“ps when you have an autistic tard flare-up do you count paper clips? just wondering.”
Here’s some useful information to you:
http://www.valtrex.com/
She’d also be a lot less likely to leave him. Divorce would plummet.
And in addition to the emotional cost to men being reduced, the economy would improve too.
I think a large chunk of our ongoing economic opportunity cost is that so many men are paying 80% of their income to their ex-wives under ‘child support’.
These men have no incentive to, say, be entrepreneurs, or to invent something new. Or even to gain a promotion.
Since virtually all technological innovations are done by men, the divorce theft industry has extinguished a portion of our innovative and productive class.
That cannot be good for the economy.
There is a strong chance anony has cuckolded her husband. She does approve of cuckolding if the woman can get away with it.
LR
Thank you, once again, for being yourself. You do something here that no guy could get away with: You display in a convincing way what “thoughts” are swirling thru the brain of a modern woman.
1. You see yourself as sacrificing because you give up freedom and “life” to get married. The same sacrifice made by the guy is apparently invisible to you.
2. It is “your” (ie the mans) child made by her body until she leaves in which case it is 100% “mine” ie the moms except that the guy must pay for its entire support.
What is so striking about this is the total, stark absence of the smallest trace of gratitude for what a guy might bring to the table.
Keep it up. You teach guys a lot more than you probably realize.
@Nova
“They both decided to have *sex*.
Only the mother gets to decide whether to “have a kid”, and she gets to unilaterally impose that, and all of the obligations it entails, on the man she had sex with simply because he decided to have sex with her. That’s where the injustice lies. ”
In the context of marriages and long-term relationships, there isn’t much of a distinction. And that’s what determines most child support.
Now you’re right that it’s not consistent. And you can argue with the feminists that their pro-choice position isn’t consistent with child support off of casual relationships, and ask them to prioritize. It’s fun.
But we’re better off with a system that legally obligates people, both men and women, to the children they create. And within that constraint, we need to be as fair as possible.
”””””’Anon,
However, the financial sacrifices made by (typically) women must be acknowledged in the event of a divorce.”””””””
I am very unclear on what sacrifices the woman is making in the financial sense.
She has a ton of extra time on her hands she could learn how to program for a couple hours a day while the hubby works so that by the time the kids are old enough she could get a decent job and impress some people at an entry level position.
The college folks that I work with cannot do what I do and that was all self taught in the last 4 years on the job. Are you telling me a woman with all day to herself after the kids hit like 5 years old cannot teach herself and become proficient at many things that would be marketable at any time. She has the time to even try many different things and the opportunity to not be stuck in a mold but the luxary of finding what she really likes to do unencumbered by the stress of having to work to pay bills. She is living like a wealthy person yet the family does not have to be wealthy. What she does with the time she had is her responsability not the mans. She is a grown person. Also if she did not start a small business while she had the time that is also on her. If she didn’t make it easy to save a potion of her husbands money instead of asking him to buy the biggest house they could afford that is also on her. What sacrifice did she make that was more than working a job so that they could survive only.
“These men have no incentive to, say, be entrepreneurs, or to invent something new. Or even to gain a promotion. ”
There’s a lot of state-by-state variation in child support requirements. It’d be interesting to see how those differences drive the labor supply of men who pay child support.
Here’s the only two ways the incentives can work:
Women can support children without men. They fuck guys who make their ginas tingle with 0 thought to the consequences. This can work through coerced child support payments or through women earning enough to pay for offspring. In 10 generations you breed Africans; men will be lazy and thuggish but good at dancing and rhyming.
Women cannot support children without keeping a man happy enough to keep paying her. Women then have to both (a) select men for the ability to pay for offspring, i.e., to be economically and socially useful and (b) keep her man happy. This ultimately selects for women who are appealing to men and men who are good at creating social value.
There are no other options.
What about the children in the second case that women have with guys who lie to women and leave them? Tough luck. If you don’t want to drift into option one, these chicks have to suffer publicly to scare the other chicks into overriding the gina tingle.
Anything you do to take care of children gives power to the gina tingle because it means that the woman can follow the gina tingle without consequence. The gina tingle is the most destructive force in society because the gina tingle is set off by men who fuck up society.
Lady Raine is such a selfish bitch. Considering her next-to-zero market value as an unwed mother, that is pretty arrogant.
Men give up much more by getting married than women do. Accept that, and you might learn about why your life didn’t turn out the way your expected.
There are large numbers of men avoiding marriage. There are no women seeking to avoid the legal status of marriage. That alone says it all about who is treated unfairly.
@guns,
I agree, after the youngest turns 5, it gets much easier.
IN the interim, she’s lost momentum in all the ways I listed yesterday. these losses can never be made up for.
I think what most women ideally desire is high quality part time work , and for labor laws to accomadate that.
[editor: there should be no accommodation of women's choices. a choce involves... choices! there is no free lunch, so your belief that the law should bend over backwards to give women everything they want -- "high quality" part time work and plenty of free time with the kids -- is the sort of muddled, self-centered thinking i would expect from a selfish cunt like yourself.]
anony
Assuming you are the same anony as the ER Doc (just pick a nym so we might not have to guess) you know perfectly well that DNA paternity testing mandatory or otherwise DOES NOT INVOLVE THE MOM. No one needs her tissue. No one kicks down the door of the nursing room and brutally scraps off pieces of your trembling flesh to get this done. It could be just another test on cord blood.
Smart women would grasp how paternity certainty would improve their prospects for further success with the marriage and get over the unhinged emotionalism they routinely bring to this issue..
””””””””””anony
@guns,
I agree, after the youngest turns 5, it gets much easier.
IN the interim, she’s lost momentum in all the ways I listed yesterday. these losses can never be made up for.
I think what most women ideally desire is high quality part time work , and for labor laws to accomadate that.””””””””””””””””””””””’
I am not buying that. I was almost welcomed into the google side (ie make your own hours because the only criteria you are under is what you produce nothing else) of my minority loving company after self teaching from 0 knowledge of computers except for playing computer games. Started at 28.
I think your not giving ””””””’real”””””” woman enough credit. Why is it that in a third world country my wife who can’t read can be self supporting after 4 years yet american woman who are mandated by law and given all kinds of extra incentive to be equal cannot be expected to do anything but one lane. If they have a kid to take care of and the whole day to themselves they can’t be expected to also do something productive (learn online, start a business, not spend all the money) with the extra time they have. At the same time this is considered some kind of sacrifice by woman. There are only so many great jobs most of the others are just shit work that takes times out of your life. This is mind boggeling.
“In the context of marriages and long-term relationships, there isn’t much of a distinction. And that’s what determines most child support.”
@keith –
I would agree in the context of a marriage or established LTR. However, in one-off situations, or even much less established relationships, I do not agree.
I have seen the link between liberalism, the welfare state, and single motherhood over and over again. Most of the women who LJBFed me became single mothers. They all get something from the government ranging from earned income tax credits to a full load of welfare including Section 8. They all got those food stamps card. One girl offered to swipe the card and buy me groceries if I gave her a ride somewhere.ALL of these women vote a straight Democrat ticket. Interestingly most of these girls had middle class backgrounds but became downtrodden after having illegitimate children from the hot studs they felt such animal attraction for.
@roissy dc
There is no good faith effort on your part, R to compare thougths. . adieu.
[editor: silly cunt. i'm not interested in comparing thoughts, i'm interested in making you suffer for your cuntiness so neatly encapsulated by your cunty ideas.]
In fact my wife is doing better than you anony she is already retired so again what is a woman giving up. If she did nothing with the time and the man and woman are 40 and they don’t have shit it is because the woman helped a whole bunch with creating that situation. She gave no thought to the fact that her man just worked 20 years or so to keep her ass alive and didn’t have the decency to make it happen where he could maybe take a break too. This is just lack of love on her part. I mean I think about that one woman that was on here that was talking about how her husbands goal was to create his own practice and she was glad that he had finally given up on his dream. That shit tore a whole in my soul. Instead of helping him to achieve his dream since she didn’t have any dreams of her own. She was glad he didn’t achieve his. She could say baby lets move to an apartment and you know what I am gonna make it my dream to help you with your dream since really I have never had one. I am going to make dam sure we live on a reasonable income until we save enough to make your dream come true since it is not even a big dream but doable totally. Amazing stuff.
And again asian woman real woman because there is nothing that forces them to be equal they just are equal.
There are some women that get hot for smart guys. I’m sure guys > 140 IQ have relatively more trouble getting ass than more avearage guys, mainly because it’s harder to relate to dumb women, but it doesn’t mean NONE of them get laid. PLENTY do, and with HOT women. And there are plenty of 110 IQ’s that have trouble, I’m guessing.
there is way too much stage one thinking going on in these discussions, to wit–if all CS, divorce. abortion laws were overturned tomorrow yes there WOULD be a throwaway generation born to the people who didn’t grok the new regime. there would be suffering, poverty and foolishness–AND there woudl be what there has ALWAYS BEEN SINCE THE DAWN OF CIVILIZATION, private charity to help.
What’s key isn’t the IMMEDIATE consequences of the policy change but the long term ramifications. the next generation has no recourse and no memory of the old days and has grandmothers warning them severely to keep their legs shut or else, shame and shotgun weddings reappear and with them fear of pregnancy like there was before the Great Disruption.
so funny, no one gave a flying fuck what the ramifications of the sexual revolution, “civil rights”, affirmative action, roe v wade and birth control would be but any attempt to correct some the errors of those days is met with NO NO NO change!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhhh
who are the conservatives again?!?!
“Here’s the only two ways the incentives can work:”
No, it could operate along a continuum.
“Women can support children without men. They fuck guys who make their ginas tingle with 0 thought to the consequences. This can work through coerced child support payments or through women earning enough to pay for offspring.”
Hard to get child support payments out of a guy with no social value.
But certainly increases in women’s earning drive a lot of this. In 1970, Women 15-19 comprised almost half of all non-marital births. By 2001, it was down to about a quarter.
Meanwhile, women aged 20-34 (especially women aged 25-29) accounted for a lot more non-marital births.
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/greenbook2003/AppendixM.pdf
“Women cannot support children without keeping a man happy enough to keep paying her. Women then have to both (a) select men for the ability to pay for offspring, i.e., to be economically and socially useful and (b) keep her man happy. This ultimately selects for women who are appealing to men and men who are good at creating social value.”
You need better enforcement mechanisms to assure women that their efforts won’t be in vain, that they will have legally enforceable rights to get what they need on this deal.
“The gina tingle is the most destructive force in society because the gina tingle is set off by men who fuck up society.”
Not proven. Like we’ve established before, even if very few women love thugs, then the thugs could do alright because they kill each other, which leaves an unbalanced gender ratio among the thugs and women who love them.
Why is it that sri lankin men can go home after a couple years of making 500 per month and relax at home with there wives and just enjoy themselves. There is something wrong horrably fucking wrong with the way our woman have been conditioned to think.
“yes there WOULD be a throwaway generation born to the people who didn’t grok the new regime”
@dana –
Of course.
The same thing happened when no-fault was introduced: millions of people saw their marriage contracts unilaterally rewritten by the state, and their spouse take advantage of the changed rules to pull the rug out from under them. I don’t hear people moaning and groaning about that collateral damage, however.
@Jack
“mainly because it’s harder to relate to dumb women”
Once you give up on relating, they get pretty easy to deal with.
The real problem is that the woman are no longer actually capable of love for their man. They cannot love there man enough to actually do anything to aid him in anything. It can never be about him only about the children. That is it.
@Jack
“There are some women that get hot for smart guys.”
It’s a niche for sure.
Women aren’t naturally as hypergamous as we think. And there are ones who don’t prefer smart guys all the time, but still like some variety.
I guess the question is to the woman what have you done for your husband to make his dream come true?
If that is nothing.
Then what is your dream?
“Hard to get child support payments out of a guy with no social value.”
keith several years ago my husband was almost put in jail for being behind on child support that was only $50 a month because they assessed it on him when he was homeless and wanted for a VAWA misdemeanor probation violation that ruined his life at 19. hows that for a guy with low social value? didn;t stop them from trying did it?
he knocked a girl up at 21and tried to make a go of it–he worked to support her and the child, she cheated on him then took the baby and went back to mom and had ANOTHER baby with a new guy and we still have to pay his stupid $50 a month because for some inexplicable reason they are leaving us alone.
SHE HAS A CHILD WITH ANOTHER MAN–how on earth can she be entitled to money from a man that did NOT want to dissolve his little family and was forced to against his will after she has deliberately had another child with a new man?
why are there NO consequences for this behavior to the woman and why do you parrot the feminist line that its “for the children”. if these fuckin women gave a rat’s ass about “the children” they wouldn’t be promiscuous cheating whores.
even if i could see the argument for the original child support, once you’ve decided it’s perfectly ok for you to have ANOTHER child you should be able to pay for everything yourself or starve and die
if anyone can’t see the bare injustice of the current child support regime on its face then they must be profoundly morally retarded
“SHE HAS A CHILD WITH ANOTHER MAN–how on earth can she be entitled to money from a man that did NOT want to dissolve his little family and was forced to against his will, even after she has deliberately had another child with a new man?”
edited for comprehension
“if anyone can’t see the bare injustice of the current child support regime on its face then they must be profoundly morally retarded”
@dana –
Of course. It’s profoundly unjust.
As I mentioned upthread a bit, my ex and I know a couple where the woman (divorced and a high earning lawyer herself) pulls down ~2600 from her ex-h monthly even though she has remarried a wealthy law partner — their combined income must be 300-400k and they live in a McMansion. We all know that 2600 is not going to true “children costs”. It’s a windfall, and not even dissolved upon remarriage. It’s nonsense as it currently works.
I am the luckiest man alive!!!!!!!!!!
My wife actually loves me!!!!!!!!!!
Mua Mua hahahahaahahhahahahahahah
Like Roissy says look at her actions.
Well her actions and her words are congruent.
Yeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!
“”There are large numbers of men avoiding marriage. There are no women seeking to avoid the legal status of marriage. That alone says it all about who is treated unfairly.”
What an idiotic statement. There are plenty of women avoiding marriage otherwise you guys wouldn’t have anything to be complaining about here. It seems to be the gender with an entitlement complex is the men.
oh goody, another dumb broad feminist is flapping her pixels
*gets popcorn*
Tood–
HAAA hahha. Are you really that stupid? Yeah it’s SO unusual to be a single mom of one child at 28 years old. Men don’t even blink an eye at that now.
I have the right to be arrogant because I don’t want marriage,
[editor: keep telling yourself that, you epic cunt. i'm sure it makes the pain easier to swallow.]
I already have a career and child to love, the only thing a man can bring to the table for me is entertainment. I don’t want their money or their babies and I assure you that men practically kiss your feet for being that way.
What an idiotic statement.
It is a true statement, ditz.
There are plenty of women avoiding marriage otherwise you guys wouldn’t have anything to be complaining about here.
There are no women ‘avoiding marriage’, just women who cannot accept that they aren’t as hot as they think they are.
A large percentage of men are deciding that the divorce laws are unfairly stacked against men, and are thus avoiding marriage to ANY woman, no matter how attractive.
There are NO women saying divorce laws are unfair to women (because they don’t want the gravy train of mooching to end).
It seems to be the gender with an entitlement complex is the men.
Typical female projection. Do you know what Game is?
dana,
You are a woman, correct? A non-feminist woman?
(hoping the answer to these questions is ‘yes’)
Novaseeker,
pulls down ~2600 from her ex-h monthly even though she has remarried a wealthy law partner
How old is the kid? Why didn’t the first father get joint custody?
tood yes, an astonishingly anti feminist woman
otherwise my whole husband story would ahve been really fucked up lol
tood i recommended “iq and the wealth of nations” by richard lynn to you in another thread if you missed it
What I find funny is that feminists will loudly say it everything is ‘For the children’ while also being the biggest proponents of partial birth abortion, as well as glorifying the lives of unwed career women.
That is why feminists are THE most hypocritical group in the world, bar none. More hypocritical than Al-Qaeda, North Korea, Rev. Wright, etc.
The 4 Sex and the City women had 2 biological kids between them, for a fertility rate of 0.5 (that too in their late 30s).
The typical Muslim woman in the West has a fertility rate of 3.0, and has all three kids before 30, and has 6-9 grandkids by age 55.
dana,
I am extremely relieved to know there are a small number of women like you and Aeofe in the world. There is hope yet.
But that this level of morality is rare enough for me to be this relieved is itself a sad indication of the state of affairs.
Hence, I naturally am suspicious that any ‘good’ woman on such a discussion board may be a man in disguise who is playing a game, or otherwise trying to boost male morale.
tood i understand, i am always accused of being a man when ppl can’t see me and just read my writing, i’m used to it.
i am much older than the typical woman that would come here and am a christina hoff sommers/camille paglia/ayn rand type. that might explain some of it, i came here via HBD and quant blogs.
XAGID19##$
Your comment has no connection to this site.
Any reasonably good looking guy with a decent job can find a woman somewhere willing to be supported for life in exchange for nothing.
The un-wisdom of actually doing that is what we are mainly talking about. But you are welcome to stay.
“How old is the kid? Why didn’t the first father get joint custody?”
@tood –
2 boys, 8 and 10. And he fought, hard, for custody, and lost. he has no black hats either, he’s a doc, no abuse or addiction or anything like that. But yeah he gets the two weekends a month + $2600 towards the McMansion fund.
Fucked up family law, really.
i am much older than the typical woman that would come here and am a christina hoff sommers/camille paglia/ayn rand type.
Darn. I was hoping some of the wisdom of the older generation was emerging in the younger, but sadly that is not the case.
Do you have daughters? Nieces? What are their views? Do they listen to you?
You might like my comment here about the ‘Four Horsemen of Male Vengeance’, all of which will be upon us by 2020. Present ‘feminist’ women are entirely unaware of the looming multi-front backlash on the horizon.
Technology is advancing, as are Muslims, as is Game.
If i’m not mistaken, the big problem is that family courts are considered courts of equity and are as such not constrained by the constitution–someone may be able to correct me on that
Novaseeker,
Ugh. At least he will be free in 10-12 years or so, AND perhaps $2600/month is not too high a percentage of his income.
The only other thing he can do is keep a record of how much was paid to the mother, and when the kids are in their 20s, say :
“What? You have no trust fund? That is why my payments to your Mom were for – see these 10 years of statements amounting to $200K to each of you, on which you should have earned a rate of return too. She told me they were going into a Trust Fund for you. I guess Mommy and step-dad stiffed you. You should take that up with them.”
That alone might be a measure of revenge.
Also, why did a wealthy law partner marry a single woman with kids? Couldn’t he do better?
tood, excellent but i think sexbots will be more devastating, a la the drum beaten by the Danimal
game will never be mastered by a large enough group of men, and betas will always want a pretty companionable woman no matter what
the beta strike cause dby sexbot will devastate women, in fact, reading the danimal archive about it blew my mind and changed my life
Holy shit an american woman scared of a sexbot. Rum is right then they are offering nothing good lord.
Dana why would you be scared of an inanimate object?
You realize jacking off is not equivelant to actually fucking a ”””””’real””””” woman right.
Oh and can you post the link?
Don’t blame the sexbots blame the living woman and laws for men not betas abandoning marriage.
Novaseeker,
$2600 a month for a Doc who probably earns $15,000 a month or more is not TOO bad. Hugely unfair, yes, but at least he doesn’t have to move in with a roommate and a shared bathroom.
Or is it because woman really do prefer their toys to real men and do not care about intimacy cuddling sexy talk time love kissing as men are led to believe hence the projection in being scared by a sexbot.
the Danimal archive
http://myrsky.net/faust3/danimal-archive
I think a good point tood is that for the average income man child support is a giant switch from how he used to live. Like yea has to live in his van down by the river while former wife lives in his house.
I mean if the bills where 3000 and there was 600 left at end of month for spending money. Then in divorce there is nothing left for him to live.
I can only imagine that men are in fact being encouraged to kill woman. There is no other explanation for the type of punishment that is going on.
excellent but i think sexbots will be more devastating, a la the drum beaten by the Danimal
There are in fact two technologies : software in the form of 3-D/VR sex, as well as sexbots. If the price of a decent sexbot gets down to $50,000, that will change everything, as the fools who may that much for Porshes and Boats will instead buy sexbots, and poorer men who cannot afford sexbots will still benefit from the trickle-down effect.
the beta strike cause dby sexbot will devastate women,
YES (tee hee). Women will wail that a sexbot or 3-D/VR woman cannot replace a real woman, but this has to be balanced by the fact that the artificial woman will be a 10, while the real ones will be 5s and 6s.
Real 10 > Artificial 10 > Real 6.
If a man had a free unlimited lifetime pass to the best strip club in town, he would go daily, and probably not bother with real dating of 5s and 6s. The effect of sexbots/VR sex will be the equivalent.
gun i am not personally afraid of sexbots, in stage one women and men raised BSB (before sexbots) will still have normal human relationships–in stage two boys who grow up ASB with the sexbot option will not put up with one bit of bullshit from women, period–it will be nuke the pussy from asshole orbit from hell
if you don’t think this is true, think about porn
i promise you, in the 80s not ONE SINGLE teenaged by expected anal sex or threesomes or broached the topic with a high school girlfriend
do you ng men do that now?
yes
teenaged boy*
””””””””’Danimal,
The whole history of technology is to introduce more and more artificiality into the world. That is, to create more barriers and make them more obvious. People learn through experience that the safety rules are conservative, and costly. The person who learns through experience to push the limits usually gets a reward (higher productivity, less effort, more excitement, etc.)”””””””’
Truth already. Bam
Sexbots is nerd-talk. Old-fashioned jerking off creates a sex experience almost as vivid as the real thing right before the climax. So there, here’s virtual sex. We’ve had it for 50,000 years.
A better trump card against a certain class of corrupt American woman would be inviting millions of young Euro, Asian and Arab women, and good looking African ones too. Obviously unaccompanied by any male companions or relatives from their home countries.
Like Gunner says, it’s not just the sex we enjoy with women; it’s also the seduction, validation, and intimacy.
””””””’Dana,
i promise you, in the 80s not ONE SINGLE teenaged by expected anal sex or threesomes or broached the topic with a high school girlfriend
do you ng men do that now?
yes””””””””””””
I had a threesome in the 80’s before I ever watched porn. I am an idiot savant though so yea might be outlier.
gun
reread, “expected it” not did it
Actually make that threesomes and foursomes I keep thinking 3 chicks and me is a threesome.
Pa,i’m sure you are right
however, who wants to bet $100 women make importation of single woemn illegal and raise the age of consent to 28 before the year 2035? lol
inviting millions of young Euro, Asian and Arab women, and good looking African ones too.
G-Man just called me on my direct line.
Reminded me about Latinas.
Yes, them too.
Oh and I was a young teenager I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing lol so yea I pretty much just experimented with intimacy and titties.
I was extremely impressed by the Danimal whenever I happened on his stuff. It is neat to discover I was hardly alone and that there is an archive.
”””””’dana
Pa,i’m sure you are right
however, who wants to bet $100 women make importation of single woemn illegal and raise the age of consent to 28 before the year 2035? lol”””””””””””’
It pretty much is already. My wife said when she went to get the tourist visa they were denying all the young pretty woman visas just to visit. The ones who looked like they where ready to die were granted tourist visas to america.
I wrote a long letter to the embassy and sent her 10 g’s so she had a net worth of around 50k or so in liquid assets. They still denied her a tourist visa but told me I could go ahead and marry her and she would be able to go and visit my parents.
who wants to bet $100 women make importation of single woemn illegal and raise the age of consent to 28 before the year 2035
Heh. Indeed Dana. Still, I’m baffled as to why lesbian organizations (I refuse to call them “womens’ organizations”) wield so much power. Only explanation: someone in power wants them to.
Interestingly, my “proposal” almost happened. According to John Derbyshire. During Nixon’s administration, if I recall correctly, Mao asked the US president if he’d accept millions of young Chinese women.
Win-win, the Chairman said. The Chinese get their overpopulation problem under control, the Americans get lots of young girls of good stock. The President said No.
dana–
Um. I did. Both.
Though the anal was porn related. The threesome wasn’t. Well it may have been penthouse letters related. In college. Oh, I didn’t just broach the topic. Got both.
Sexbots is nerd-talk. Old-fashioned jerking off creates a sex experience almost as vivid as the real thing right before the climax.
Internet porn is distinctly superior to VHS cassette porn of yesteryear. Most men did not have the guts to go rent a VHS porn cassette. Even after that, the scenes may not be the ones the man prefers. If a man specifically wanted to see a ‘blond woman with bouncing tits while riding’, it would not be easy to find this footage.
Internet porn has a lot of garbage but once you find exactly the clips that satiate your own highly specialized tastes (which vary from man to man), the buttons are pushed more precisely.
The future technologies will actually create a lot more ‘David Alexanders by default’. As men with more social value than DA choose this life, it affects women.
This is why I just LOVE Lady Raine:
Note the various themes. “Horrors” of pregnancy = “HOT Alpha men don’t look at me with desire” — typical of women today. “Women are not required to reproduce for you …” equals “we have sexual market power, you are all losers!” which is of course monumentally stupid. Women are not required to have physical safety either, and a system that produces a few Alpha men mating and having kids with most women reliably produces heavy loads of violence against women and children. This is proven throughout history. Duh, most human violence revolves around men wanting and not having women.
[Most women are actually dumb enough to think men fight and kill and risk horrible death for ideas or abstract principles. Instead of over women, in one way or another.]
Not the “men should be able to do whatever they want” trope — when most men have the attractiveness of a cold bowl of oatmeal, and thus can’t do whatever they want because most women find them utterly unattractive.
Human beings are hard-wired to want love, affection, companionship as well as sex. The Pet explosion, particularly dogs, in Western nations (and China also) is a function of this need for affection and love. Men aren’t going to marry a Lady Raine who’s had far too many other men, because even if men crave emotional and physical intimacy, they bottom line don’t share with other men. They don’t. Pr0n for stimulation and a pet for affection is an acceptable substitute, the equivalent of a thousand cats for women.
The fundamental truth most men learn early (in HS) about themselves is that they just are not that attractive to most women. The fundamental truth women generally fail to learn is that while they are attractive to most men, it fades quite rapidly. And declines exponentially with orders of partners, the older and more experienced a woman is, the less attractive.
This is why I love Lady Raine. She says what most women think but only speak of among themselves.
”””””””””PA,
Win-win, the Chairman said. The Chinese get their overpopulation problem under control, the Americans get lots of young girls of good stock. The President said No.”””””””
That sob.
lol doug the anal was porn related you gay bastard.
Mandy –
Mandy, this is completely ahistorical. It wasn’t men that put women down for wanting to stay at home before and at the dawning of the full fledged feminist era in the later 1960s with precursors in the 1950s, like Betty Freidan. It was feminists who told women it was a dull and unsatisfying life, and they were sacrificing excitement and self actualization and full equality by staying at home, even with little kids.
True, women except in very plush circumsntaces did usually work before marriage.
Less well off women often worked during marriage as well, in the 1950s and before. Often they continued to until they had children, and often even well off college educated women did as well, Actually, probably usually they did, though often not. Mothers of older children in school often worked part time as well back then, unless they were well off – or even if they were they might if they were especially proto feminist oriented.
Men back then and before often felt bad if their wives had to work. Felt like they weren’t earning enough, and were either apologetic or mad at the system for exploiting working men, etc. Or sometimes they didn’t, but expected it, but if it wasn’t necessary or if their working a bit harder would make it not necessary, they were considered boorish and unfeeling towards women and family. The ideal was to be able to afford to not have you wife work, certainly if you had kids and esp. infants or young ones.
What shifted by the 1980s with a rapid move in that direction in the 1970s was that it was deeply unfashionable for women to not work, except perhaps for a very few years when they had infants, but even then it was better to hire someone. That was all feminism’s doing Mandy. Entirely. It did not come from me.
Trust me on this. Or don’t. Research it. If you do, come back and tell me I was right, (except for quibble this, and quibble that, maybe. Maybe not.)
Pretty impressive though because doug was a teenager in the 60’s jesus.
gunny–
Naaah.
It was talked about as an out there, avant guard thing. Also in Penthouse letters. Not yet a mass thing though.
One time with anal and I felt bad. I was trying to put it into the college chick (no lube treated her like a lawyer) but yea it popped in all the way at one time and she did the farthest longjump I have ever seen off the coach and across the room with a primeevil scream lol
Luckily she forgave me. he he he
Anal sex is disgusting. It misshapes an orifice. Makes a woman’s ass look like a faggot’s.
Anony—
You clearly cheated on your husband at the time when at least one of your two children were conceived.
“If i’m not mistaken, the big problem is that family courts are considered courts of equity and are as such not constrained by the constitution–someone may be able to correct me on that”
@dana –
That’s often passed around in state court systems as a reason, but it’s not very convincing. You don’t waive your constitutional rights just because a court is sitting in “equity”.
The main issue is that the federal courts have decided to not intervene in family law cases, deferring to the states. And no state court has seen fit to apply the restrictions of the constitution to family law courts. So as a result you have the state making decisions about the most important parts of someone’s life (where you live, what you do with your income, how often you see your kids) without any constitutional protection at all.
Kind of a useless constitution when you have more protections and rights as an accused rapist than you do as a father in the courts of the state.
I like Anony showing up here time and again. It’s cool to watch Roissy insult and humiliate her with vilest words, and she just responds with civil-sounding blah blah blah.
It’s like watching someone come back time and again to get her face pissed on.
“Also, why did a wealthy law partner marry a single woman with kids? Couldn’t he do better?”
@tood –
The guy is kind of a loser, I think, but he does make a lot of money.
“$2600 a month for a Doc who probably earns $15,000 a month or more is not TOO bad. Hugely unfair, yes, but at least he doesn’t have to move in with a roommate and a shared bathroom.”
Oh, he’s not in the poor house, but he’s also not making quite that much money, either. They have around the same incomes, and certainly her joint income with hew new husband is more than her ex’s –> but, as we know, her new husband’s income is not taken into account when calculating child support, even though there is clearly an alimony element to CS. It’s just a mess, really.
Yea PA it to me it kind of lost its allure at first yea exciting that some chick is able to take the pain for you but then the thing losens up he he he
Fun every once in a while to switch it up. I believe in fucking every orafice on a woman including eyes ears armpit toes I don’t care I am taking the whole body as mine.
Kind of feel bad for fags.
Whereas the pussy can stay tight. Although when they are too horny yea that too gets to be unable to fill sometimes he he he
Female narcissism is incredible. She “does a man a favor” by having his kids? She “gives up her freedom, her life, her body” to have his kids?
Here’s a novel idea: maybe the guy also did her a favor by GETTING her pregnant, and it’s not a one way street. Why is it in your mind only the guy is having a favor done for him when his woman gets pregnant. They’re doing each OTHER a favor.
Second, believe it or not there are women who don’t look at kids as a prison or death sentence.
“The Chinese get their overpopulation problem under control, the Americans get lots of young girls of good stock. The President said No.”
Isn’t that called international adoption? Plenty of people adopt little Chinese girls.
Well joe that is the thing the media has been pushing for a long time how tough it is to have kids and that they are a sacrifice and how they mess up your life. Don’t have kids until your ready bla bla bla bla
The media too powerfull.
When you look at reality people fuck up there lives with kids or without.
With kids is more fun than sitting there all adults without having some kids around going buck wild playing some game doing what they do so you can laugh at them and maybe do some vicarious living while they dig in the dirt for bugs and such and interact with a world where everything is pretty much new.
Basically today in us kids are treated as a cash cow that is all your supposed to look at them as or as something to push you agenda of what you want done by saying the code line “for the children”
@Whiskey
“The fundamental truth most men learn early (in HS) about themselves is that they just are not that attractive to most women. ”
Yes, it’s really good policy to carry around high school for the rest of your life in your dealings with the opposite sex.
High school was hard on a lot of kids. Most adults are a lot better looking now than they were in high school. So high school did have a distribution that consisted of very few attractive people and a lot of less attractive people. Of course that created a crazy atmosphere.
And in America, high school sports (as much as I love sports, and as much fun as I personally had in high school) probably makes for an even tougher social atmosphere for most people.
We’d move social dynamics in a positive direction if we had more and smaller high schools and divorced sports from education.
””””””””””’on July 12, 2009 at 5:49 pm whiskey
This is why I just LOVE Lady Raine:
She carried them and delivered them and accepted the horrors of pregnancy and did you a favor and had your kids. Women are not required to reproduce for you or anyone else and you should be kissing her feet if she chooses YOU to have them with.
It would be one thing if you were just about good family values, but you’re not. You think men should be able to do whatever they want and get whatever they want while the woman suffers. That’s why we needed required child support in the first place. From “trusting” men to do what’s right.
Note the various themes. “Horrors” of pregnancy””””””””””””””””””””””
This from the same woman who was talking about cock size. What the fuck is big to these woman. Complain they need a big cock. But then complain that a pregnancy with a little baby head coming out is sooooooooo horrable.
@PA
“It’s cool to watch Roissy insult and humiliate her with vilest words”
Yeah, why won’t people take you guys more seriously when you talk about gender fairness?? I can’t imagine. Must be some conspiracy.
novaseeker–
Neither is HER income novaseeker. (Except to the teesiest extent in California in their elaborate calculations, but it’s teensie.)
They PRETEND to take her income into account. They ask for it on forms. Then guess what. It’s in the numerator and the denominator. It cancels out into a multipicative 1. A nullity.
It’s a shame. It’s a deliberate hoodwinking of men. How else explain putting something into formulas and asking for it on forms and then canceling it out.
I’ve said this many times before. Get it into your head.
Ok?
Or else show me wrong, of course. But you can’t. because I’m right. I’m certain that was the case in the national model legislation devised by feminists in the 1980s and enacted around the states in the early Clinton 1990s in the “dead beat dads” campaign.
high school sports (as much as I love sports, and as much fun as I personally had in high school) probably makes for an even tougher social atmosphere for most people
HS sports include teams that cater to differetn types of athletic abilities, plus JV level teams for the less talented.
No excuse for any high school boy not to play a high school sport, unless he happens to be rebel/stoner type.
@Joe
“Here’s a novel idea: maybe the guy also did her a favor by GETTING her pregnant, and it’s not a one way street.”
Actually, nobody did anybody any favors.
Whiskey
Epic comment Whiskey now watch The Wire.
I’ve read about pets being big in Japan as well.
Lady Raine–
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/07/10/why-there-is-a-gender-gap/#comment-104313
Who are you kidding stupid fucktard?
You people want to have kids way more than we people do. You bitches compared to we men.
So stop your stupid fronting.
Wrestling in high school is one of the best things I ever did. 20 years later I can still grab a man bigger than me and with one quick move put him on the ground with his arm twisted behind his back.
^^^@doug- not always, the birth rate dips for a reason when women have a choice and good medical care.
“HS sports include teams that cater to different types of athletic abilities, plus JV level teams for the less talented. ”
If the HS has intramural teams; most don’t. At any high school with multiple thousands of students, even guys who make JV are way above the population mean in their sport.
“No excuse for any high school boy not to play a high school sport, unless he happens to be rebel/stoner type.”
Depends on the size of the school. If you’re below 1000 students, you’re likely right. Otherwise, you’re wrong.
Yea pa and the difference between wrestling and mma fighting on a mat is that when you slam someone on concrete they get knocked the fuck out.
Think about all the takedowns where guys don’t get hurt in mma. Now picture that on concrete sidewalk. The wrestlers would be devasting the boxers whatever more than they already do if that shit was in real life circumstances.
Yea but keith lets say you wrestle puts you above 90 percent of men in a fight already. Good for your ability to defend yourself.
That’s a good point Gunner. I wasn’t even a great wrestler. Never made varsity. But that was against other trained athletes. Against regular guys today, the takedown skills are invaluable.
@Doug
“What shifted by the 1980s with a rapid move in that direction in the 1970s was that it was deeply unfashionable for women to not work, except perhaps for a very few years when they had infants, but even then it was better to hire someone. That was all feminism’s doing Mandy.”
No, you have to blame Reagan a lot more then feminism. He cut marginal tax rates, and female labor supply is much more elastic. There could have been a social norm effect, as more women entered the workplace, it became more acceptable.
As for the 70s, the multiple recessions, especially in manufacturing, drove initial female entry into the labor force.
At best, feminism’s a bit player.
“Research it. If you do, come back and tell me I was right”
Stop telling people to humor you.
Why my son gonna start early he he he and undertand some throws.
Gonna let him read roissy to of course so he can not only beat a man to death with his bare hands but also argue his point somewhat before he does it he he he
Jay Fink
“I have seen the link between liberalism, the welfare state, and single motherhood over and over again. Most of the women who LJBFed me became single mothers. They all get something from the government ranging from earned income tax credits to a full load of welfare including Section 8. They all got those food stamps card. One girl offered to swipe the card and buy me groceries if I gave her a ride somewhere.ALL of these women vote a straight Democrat ticket. Interestingly most of these girls had middle class backgrounds but became downtrodden after having illegitimate children from the hot studs they felt such animal attraction for.”
Speaking of that Earned Income Tax Credit, it’s another one of those goodies that make being a single mother more prosperous than getting/staying married.
“Yea but keith lets say you wrestle puts you above 90 percent of men in a fight already. Good for your ability to defend yourself.”
Great, have intramural wrestling in high school, along with other intramural sports. Have leagues for different levels of skill and ability, like you have in intramural college sports.
But current high school sports, especially in larger schools, doesn’t get enough guys involved, and creates a smaller group of athletes and a much larger group of guys with very little activity. And it reinforces unhealthy social norms.
nova,
federal courts don’t intervene until someone brings suit–that’s what aclu test cases are about–why no men’s rights legal action group bringing these cases to court i wonder?
But current high school sports, especially in larger schools, doesn’t get enough guys involved, and creates a smaller group of athletes and a much larger group of guys with very little activity. And it reinforces unhealthy social norms.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing. That larger schools cause athlete / nonathlete stratifications?
From an individual student’s point of view, large schools offer them the resources to play the kind of sports they are best suited for and most interested in.
“I’ve said this many times before. Get it into your head.
Ok?
Or else show me wrong, of course. But you can’t. because I’m right. I’m certain that was the case in the national model legislation devised by feminists in the 1980s and enacted around the states in the early Clinton 1990s in the “dead beat dads” campaign.”
Um.
In Virginia, the calculation model adds both incomes together and then goes to a statutory formula to get the total support amount for that combined gross income. Then you divide that amount by income share (% of income of the total for each spouse). So her income is taken into account here in Virginia.
That lost post was from me, doug1.
PA
From this I surmise you don’t even believe girls have assholes.
You’ve made it clear that you don’t believe girls poop. At all.
What else would be the purpose of an asshole, if not for poop, OR anal sex? You must believe they don’t exist on girls, right?
Yet that would imply a shocking lack of investigation on your part. Which I also find hard to believe.
I’m left puzzled PA!
Puzzled indeed.
They PRETEND to take her income into account. They ask for it on forms. Then guess what. It’s in the numerator and the denominator. It cancels out into a multipicative 1. A nullity.
And hence, you get to a point where normally docile white-collar men are openly hoping for more violence against unmarried women.
Did feminists really come out ahead, in the long run?
From this I surmise you don’t even believe girls have assholes.
You’ve made it clear that you don’t believe girls poop. At all.
Another customer for a sexbot with NO such orifice. heh heh
@PA “I’m not sure what you’re arguing. That larger schools cause athlete / nonathlete stratifications?”
Yes. Certainly you get overemphasis on smaller groups of athletes at the expense of more intramural competition schoolwide.
“From an individual student’s point of view, large schools offer them the resources to play the kind of sports they are best suited for and most interested in.”
I’ll think on that. They might be better for students who are into some different sports. Tennis and swimming, for example. Maybe soccer.
But smaller schools enable even awful athletes to compete for their school.
Keith–
Feminism wasn’t responsible for making women or many of them believe that being a stay at home mom wasn’t a good thing and a privilege if they were married to a successful enough man, but a bad and status lowering thing, which was Mandy’s point that I was addressing?
Keith, you’ve outed yourself as a leftist ideologue, and an inflexible and dogmatic one at that.
@Doug
“Keith, you’ve outed yourself as a leftist ideologue, and an inflexible and dogmatic one at that.”
Doug, that’ll really confuse the leftist ideologues, who get mad and call me a rightist ideologue when I point out that Reagan’s tax cuts liberated women and unleashed them into the workforce.
novaseeker–
Your description sounds like the model legislation.
Put your state’s word formula into math symbols and an equation. a, b and c. etc. We’re talking simple algebra here, obsfuscated a bit by the language perhaps.
Then tell me her income doesn’t cancel out. It absolutely does in the model national formula. It does in NY. It does the great majority of places. Probably everywhere except for little teaks.
The justification is that both parents should contribute the same percentage of their income, the male child support percentage, to the upkeep of the kid. It’s assumed the woman does. Just assumed. The level needed is the level both can produce at that 20% for one kid, 25-30% for two kids rate of before tax income and it’s not deductible, or taxable to the woman. So that’s the total based on both incomes. The man’s part of that is his 20-30% before tax.
Like I said, it cancels out.
Do the exercise for your state.
Keith is not a pure leftist, but is enough of a Beta rube that he thinks chivalry will get him a pat on the head from women (which is the pinnacle of his aspirations).
Keith, I will give you 2 weeks to read everything on this website (start with the ‘Marriage is for Chumps’ category). If you have not changed your opinions by then, I will submit you as a candidate for “Beta of the Month”, which will result in great ridicule of you on this website.
doug1,
So…
1) Is joint custody the only way that a man can reduce the theft of his income?
2) Why is it that normal fathers with a clean record still do not get joint custody?
3) Can a pre-nup stipulate that all issues in the event of divorce be resolved via mediation, rather than the legal process. This alone would greatly shield a man from unfairness.
;””””””””””””””””””””””doug1
PA
Anal sex is disgusting. It misshapes an orifice. Makes a woman’s ass look like a faggot’s.
From this I surmise you don’t even believe girls have assholes.
You’ve made it clear that you don’t believe girls poop. At all.
What else would be the purpose of an asshole, if not for poop, OR anal sex? You must believe they don’t exist on girls, right?””””””””””””””””””’
Doug why are you trying to ruin santa claus and yea girls assholes are only for anal sex they don’t poop.
:”The justification is that both parents should contribute the same percentage of their income, the male child support percentage, to the upkeep of the kid. It’s assumed the woman does. Just assumed. The level needed is the level both can produce at that 20% for one kid, 25-30% for two kids rate of before tax income and it’s not deductible, or taxable to the woman. So that’s the total based on both incomes. The man’s part of that is his 20-30% before tax.”
@doug1 –
Oh I agree that there is no policing as to whether the woman spends *her* share, that’s totally true. But I see that as a part of the lack of accountability. She doesn’t have to account for the CS you pay to her, nor does she have to demonstrate she is using “her share” for CS related spending. Totally agree there, but I wouldn’t phrase it the way you do — I would simply say that women have no accountability for the CS they are supposed to spend themselves as well as the CS they are paid by the NCP ex husband.
Tood:
1. So far as child support=alimony goes, yes. You can also try to effect a cap, or what happens into your state’s “very high earner” category, if it has one. The default is either “the standard to which they had become accustomed” or “the standard the father enjoys”. That’s expenditure though, not power accumulation money. But all this later only applies to the very highest earners / tiny percentage.
2. Feminism. Anglo chivalry. Some reality to women are better at child rearing, but the some reality is taken as to hugely prejudiced extremes. I think men may usually be better custodial parents to teenagers for example. Women certainly to infants and as well I think to pre schoolers. Between those two ages there’s a transition, which varies with the parents.
I.e. I think the default should be that Dad gets custody of all teenagers. Maybe any kid over 10. Or make it 9 to divide in half.
3. No. It can require that first. It can’t keep the courts from reviewing the whole thing. They will wade in wholesale in the area of child support, under current law. As in make a nullity of any arbitration. Which lawyers will know about and will affect the arbitration. Most divorces as in the overwhelming majority actually are “arbitrated” in a sense. That is they’re settled. The lawyers finally work out a deal, based on the few cases that go to court and the law when few have on a change in the law, after they have milked their clients for all they can stand, often enough. Depends on the lawyers how bad that is but there’s usually some element when the man has bucks.
@doug1 –
So in algebra terms:
H earns 100k
W earns 100k
Formula applied (assume 40% AGI for combined CS of H and W)
Formula = total CS for kid of 6667 per month
Income share (50/50 in this case) = 3333 each
So H pays 3333 to W.
Problem, as you point out is that (1) the amount is set too high (no way CS should be 6667 per month) and (2) no accountability for how W contributes “her” share, or even how she spends the CS that H pays to her.
So yes, it’s quite fucked up. I just wouldn’t use the words “cancel out”. I would simply say that she isn’t tracked on her share, or your share — no accountability is the issue.
Doug
Looks like I owe you a clarification. Girls do in fact have assholes. I have seen many womens’ undersides. To say the least.
So they do have assholes, but they are vestigial like mens’ nipples and structurally they are a dead end, so they are always clean.
Still, you are correct, girls don’t poop. Yes, I have seen baby girls’ poopy diapers. That’s because all infants poop. (duh!). However, at some point during toddlerhood or maybe during puberty — don’t know the details; I’m not a doctor — girls stop pooping, and from then on remain clean down there.
Girls do eat, of course. What happens is that the waste products of what they ingest become removed from existence while still inside them, an exception ot the law of conservation of matter.
novaseeker–
Do the math. Turn the words of your state into math symbols.
Turn it into an SAT math word problem.
Then tell me I’m not right. That the woman’s income is canceled out entirely in Virginia child support formula calculations.
“I think men may usually be better custodial parents to teenagers for example. Women certainly to infants and as well I think to pre schoolers. Between those two ages there’s a transition, which varies with the parents.
I.e. I think the default should be that Dad gets custody of all teenagers. Maybe any kid over 10. Or make it 9 to divide in half. ”
@doug1 –
YES!
I also think that the parenting deal is that women are best with youngest ones, it transitions in the middle, and then teen years dads are best. Welmer says it should be divided on 7 year intervals, such that custody arrangements shift accordingly as the children age.
Doug1 –
I just did that three posts above.
”””””””’novaseeker
@doug1 –
So in algebra terms:
H earns 100k
W earns 100k
Formula applied (assume 40% AGI for combined CS of H and W)
Formula = total CS for kid of 6667 per month
Income share (50/50 in this case) = 3333 each
So H pays 3333 to W.
Problem, as you point out is that (1) the amount is set too high (no way CS should be 6667 per month) and (2) no accountability for how W contributes “her” share, or even how she spends the CS that H pays to her.
So yes, it’s quite fucked up. I just wouldn’t use the words “cancel out”. I would simply say that she isn’t tracked on her share, or your share — no accountability is the issue.””””””””””
Nice job so then the guy who makes 100k is taking home 33k maybe after taxes pure insanity.
Now imagine how much the guy making less is taking home and what is the point of working.
Yes the amounts are insane high, that is the issue.
I think what doug means to say is that the amounts are set at a level such that, in effect, the guy is paying all of the “support” — in other words the formula artificially grosses up the number, knowing full well the custodial parent will not really be “paying” her share.
Let me also say that at no time is an alpha boy afraid of his female mother. Let me just repeat that for the ones who say teenagers for men or whatever. At no time can a female intimidate an alpha male with anything.
lesbians wield a lot of power because of the old military principle proven time and time again: a small, but goal-oriented and dedicated group can overwhelm a larger, static, unforcused force.
Lesbinazis, safely ensconced in academia with tenure, easily pool their small resource to provide both air (propaganda) and ground (recruitment of young, impressionable females and weak males) support for their cause. Tenure has seriously given them the time and ammo to take on “the establishment.”
Most men have either been overwhelmed (along with their knee-jerk chivalrous attitude) or else have not organized themselves seriously for a counterattack.
It’s classic guerilla warfare. The U.S. got beaten by propaganda and dedicated guerillas in Vietnam (though military history shows that the U.S was actually winning the war on the ground when we pulled out), and we’ve been beaten by feminism, and, to a lesser extent, race studies since then.
but just like we learned to fight back and won the Iraq war by dedicated bloggers showing the truth and the Marine method, we can organize and take back this country from the lesbinazis.
novashare–
Well then, departing from the usual respect i have for you, I say you are wimping out.
Of course it’s canceling out.
There is no amout of income an ex wife can make that will reduce the percentage amount assessed on her ex husband under current feminist enacted male indentured servitude, upon divorced with children.
Please explain to me how that isn’t canceled out.
Please explain to me that you don’t want to descend into total wimpdom.
PA
LoL!
Yea pa does have that ’shit’ down don’t he.
Yea no matter how you slice it on child support same money going out lol
So I guess to be fair to my wife I should be paying her 40k a year in lump sums. But then she would be rich as fuck.
I wonder what american woman do with the same money.
From an individual student’s point of view, large schools offer them the resources to play the kind of sports they are best suited for and most interested in.
From what I saw in my Catholic prep school of 3,000, the best athletes and crony picks monopolize the varsity and junior varsity teams leaving intramural sports, and nobody wants to play in the “loser” league. Plus, if you’re not athletic, it doesn’t make sense to join a team unless you believe that public embarrassment and shame are fun. I used to run track and field in elementary school, but my teammates hated me because I lost all the time, and I grew sick of always losing.
Speaking of that Earned Income Tax Credit, it’s another one of those goodies that make being a single mother more prosperous than getting/staying married.
EITC sucks ass because it doesn’t pay for itself. What good is that extra money when you have to pay to take care of a child? Hell, paying for a babysitter to get the kids out of the house in order to ride on the alpha cock carousel isn’t free.
Mind you, in terms of public policy, it makes sense, and even men can qualify. I managed to walk away with an additional $61 on my tax refund last year from EITC…
”””””””””””””Lurker,
Most men have either been overwhelmed (along with their knee-jerk chivalrous attitude) or else have not organized themselves seriously for a counterattack.
It’s classic guerilla warfare. The U.S. got beaten by propaganda and dedicated guerillas in Vietnam (though military history shows that the U.S was actually winning the war on the ground when we pulled out), and we’ve been beaten by feminism, and, to a lesser extent, race studies since then.”””””””””””””””””
Well that is why perfect war works you kill em all and their are no guerillas sun tzu’s art of war is a relic of past wars. Not a model for the future.
Just plain common sense, Gunner, and intellectual rigor.
I’ve never, in my entire life, ever come across evidence that girls poop. So should I believe some conspiracy theorists who argue that these girls “protect me” from ungodly sights, sounds and smells by concealing their alleged fecal expulsions from my attention?
Yeah, like they’d all get together to scheme such a plot. I don’t believe in massive cover-ups.
Or do I go with the no-brainer explanation that girls don’t poop?
ocams razor sounds correct as i copy what I have hea