by Roissy
I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first
Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.
II. Make her jealous
Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.
III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence. They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out. You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.
IV. Don’t play by her rules
If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
V. Adhere to the golden ratio
Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.
VI. Keep her guessing
True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.
VII. Always keep two in the kitty
Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.
VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.
IX. Connect with her emotions
Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.
X. Ignore her beauty
The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t fucking. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.
XI. Be irrationally self-confident
No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.
XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses
In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.
XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little
Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.
XIV. Fuck her good
Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.
XV. Maintain your state control
You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.
XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when your ego-fear is gone you will turn and face your lover, and only your heart will remain. You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.
***
The closer you follow the letter of these commandments, the easier you will find and keep real, true unconditional love and happiness in your life.
Best,
Roissy, Your Lord and King
As a woman I agree with a lot of this. XIV is the most important!
Roissy, from the sounds of things, you seem to know women. I have a bit of a dilemma, and I was wondering if there was a way to e-mail you to get your take on my siuation…
(I realize this reply is on another post as well, but this is a bit of a dire situation)
Dire situation, indeed. You’re panicked enough to not notice that his email address is posted under the “About” page…
just found that and i came back to see if i could delete the comment…
Wasn’t there a long string of comments here before? Did they get deleted?
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/ is the original thread. Roissy figured it was too awesome to languish in the archives, so he made a copy easily accessible from the front page.
I would add other commandments
XVII- Don’t worry or be afraid of what a broad is thinking:
As a man, one should conquer his ego and be indifferent to what people think of him, be it subjective criticisms or insincere flattery. (the latter being highly addictive for every one wants to be admired). Try to be objective with yourself instead and balance your ego.
Do not waste your time trying to think what she’s thinking and think for yourself instead. Do not let her thoughts or opinions control your emotional state or mood, remain cool, calm and collected. Instead of getting hung up on what she says, observe her actions for they speak louder than words.
XVIII-Don’t be too attached.
Stop trying to control and manipulate the outcome. Control yourself instead, be honest with what you REALLY want and DON’T appologize for being a man. Stop beating around the bush and keep it short, sweet and to the point, it shows balls.
XIX- Don’t talk it personally.
Rejection is not failure, it is win-win for not every girl is made for you and it saves you time and energy. If a women is not interested, let it go and stop chasing her…she might come back on your terms. Don’t be a dictator but don’t be overly accommodating either. Be flexible but remain firm and know where to draw the line as to what behavior you’re willing to tolerate. Failure is failing to be honest with yourself.
XX- Be genuinely Curious about her
Curiosity is being interested. Ask her lots of open ended questions and get her life story. Remember to always read between the lines. Be a good listener but refrain from giving her unsolicited advice, judging her or trying to “fix” her problems or change her behavior, or she will start viewing you as a “brother/friend”. seek first to understand before being understood.
You want to know as much as you can about her and let her know as little as you can about yourself. The more questions she asks you, the more interested and intrigued she is, therefore keep control over the ball and always keep her wanting more.
Honesty should not be confused with confession, do not brag or give unnecessary information and keep your air of mystery. Being too talkative and verbose is not sexy. Less is more so Let her fill the blanks instead.
Haha… The WOW part is awesome… And Metalhaze–THANK YOU. Guys who yammer on and on and on and on drive me to drink. Although to fair–it’s not an admirable quality in anyone…
Genius. An excellent list. When is your book coming… I’m bookmarking it now
You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.
“You will walk away from her when she has violated your integrity, and you will let her walk when her heart is closed to you. She who can destroy you, controls you. Don’t give her that power over yourself. Love yourself before you love her.”
I have sent this to countless people that have broke up recently. It really hits home and I love you for it Roissy, it has helped me move on and do what I love after a 4 year fiasco.
[...] Read the Sixteen Commandments Of The Poon here. [...]
Well XIV sounds like a lot of fun–but easier said than done! (Hey! Im a poet!) But this one,X,get inured to her beauty. That sounds a little weird. Isnt the real man the one who has the most appreciation for beauty? When i’m ultra horny,happy and self confident,then women appear soooo beautiful! When I am down in the dumps,theres a felling of,:”Big fookin’ deal! I aint gittin none o’that…” Anyway,#XIII is absolutely great! I will become much more more the toucher;great advice!
[...] 16 Commandments of Pussy The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon Roissy in DC I. Never say I Love You first Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win [...]
“the letter”
excellent.
we may meet someday, but we’ll never know it for certain.
I was wondering like I always have my female under control and I always go in there keeping my eyes on the prize. But it was this one chick and she was super beautiful and everything was going well and she told me a whole lot of good things and use to call and text me everyday all day..And suddenly it stopped. So I started to think that is was another guy but she telling me that she is busy.
But she was making time the first time and telling me that I am the exact type of guy that she wanted. So she basically gamed me..I started believing her..And then I let my feeling get involved..Then she stopped texting and calling..And she would text and call back when she feels like it.
So basically I was in control at first and she ended up getting into control..And now I have not talked to her for 2 weeks now and I texted her 3 times out of that two weeks..So I want to know what can I do to get back in control because to make it worse is I didn’t even fuck her..And I stayed with her but didn’t try..And now I wish I would have tried to fuck her..So what can I do to get back in control…
Speak that truth!!!
sungirltan:
furthermore alot of cheating isnt really about sex at all. its about attention and support or just uncomplicated interaction.
Let’s get something straight. When women cheat, they do it for reasons that fall into one of two broad categories:
1. Her husband is a high-status alpha male. In this case, she will love fucking his brains out, but will emotionally wilt because of her inability to completely capture his heart, i.e., betaize him. He won’t be giving her the emotional closeness she desires as an indicator of her power over him. In this scenario, a woman will cheat on him with a nice-guy beta type to get her emotional fix.
2. Her husband is a boring beta provider. He loves talking about his feelings and cooing over the baby. He takes care of all their material needs. But he probably has a small dick, doesn’t know how to use it, is not socially dominant and so does not stimulate the more primative parts of her brain. She craves a Real Man(tm). She fucks the pool-boy or her personal trainer. This type of cheating is the more common type, IMO.
Since the justifications for cheating in scenario #1 are seen by society as “acceptable” because “it’s the man’s fault”, women use it as an all-purpose smokescreen to hide the reasons for cheating in scenario #2.
tupac- totally agree
Hmmm…I noticed that something is missing.
Too bad, since it would have helped to promote the stereotype that fat “ugly” chicks have better personalities, and (outside the U.S. anyway) don’t feel they can afford to be bitches.
You must not fear. Fear is the love-killer. Fear is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face your fear. You will permit it to pass over and through you.
Good Dune reference, but are you saying that we should approach women as if trying to ride a giant sand worm?
That has got to be the biggest load of crap I have ever read. I’ve had more women than I can count, and have now been in a happy, loving relationship for four years. You rules don’t mean you have “game” – they make you a selfish prick.
[...] explain all the sexual hangups of the world merely by saying that women are too fat. Highlights: 16 Commandments of Poon, a long discussion about an offensive JC Penny sales campaign (see the video here). Roissy [...]
Custador
Really? You want to see a better rule? You should check out Leykis 101 by Professor Tom Leykis. I could understand his rules used by assholes and “selfish pricks.” At least Roissy includes cuddling… why would you though? You have to deal with her in the morning. Waste money on breakfast.
Also assholes and selfish pricks get laid more than you do by different women. Considering that you stopped being a player. Good luck with your old bag 10 years down the load, you will be poppin blue pills and conjuring every kinky memory to get a decent wood for the expired girlfriend of urs.
Yes I am an asshole or jerk, call me whatever you like. Personally uber-asshole is best.
*looks at commandments, cries* I hate that I agree with most of it. I do. I really do.
Stupid reality and waking up to it.
Tame the untameable.
I have been enlightened and I will be eternally grateful!
Spectacular. Erudite, comprehensive and humorous in your delivery. I’m going to have to feature your list in my own blog (minus the explanations I’ll refer them here for that).
http://alphadominance.com/
Enjoyed your list here. Very much.
Found it when I came across your blog back when. On Jan. 5th~
Made me wanna write the 16 I did in response to yours~
http://ohsweetgal.blogspot.com/2009/01/sixteen-for-single-gals.html
Keep posting & being all kinds of *you* So refreshingly fun you are. Never change, please & thank you.
So interesting you post and see what you do.
*smiles*
How can any of this be done, when US divorce laws are so overwhelmingly lopsided against men? A married man has no choice but to become Beta. as the woman has the power to ruin him any time he wants.
Marriage IS a Beta act. It may not start out that way, but all bu tthe most deft men will be hammered into Beta-dom, as the power of the state is backing her against you.
Men, if you want to have kids of your own or a family, sorry, but this is the wrong country and the wrong era in history for that. This is an era where a man in a developed country is unlikely to die on a battlefield. The price of that is that this is an era where a man with kids and a happy family is an extemely difficult outcome to attain.
“Also assholes and selfish pricks get laid more than you do by different women.”
You men are so clueless. Women like men IN SPITE of the fact that they are “assholes” NOT BECAUSE OF. You men always confuse the two.
Insulting a woman doesn’t turn a man who is a 5 into a 10. In fact any time someone insults me they are usually making their ugly mug even uglier by their negativity.
“Yes I am an asshole or jerk, call me whatever you like. Personally uber-asshole is best.”
Low-life is more fitting…
I think you should eliminate the need for women all together. It’s just too damn complicated. Take yoga, learn to give yourself a bj and you are set. No more woman problems and no need to have to follow these commandments. You can just get a dog in case you need to kick something around.
So this where good game comes to die a quiet death.
I’ve had men try these rules on me and then get angry when I don’t respond in a predictable way (i.e. chase them). This explains it all! I always had a feeling there’s some Game Bible floating around because men all over the U.S. try this stupid stuff.
These rules are great if your goal is to sleep with a large variety of (dumb) women. It also works if you want to sleep with a pretty woman with low self-esteem (jackpot!). But it doesn’t work if you’re looking for a quality woman for long-term. Choose your game wisely.
Btw, guys? Do you think we can’t tell you’re playing games when you interrupt a phone conversation abruptly, promise to call back in a few minutes, don’t call back…and then wait and wait and wait for us to call you back? Keep on waiting, playa. LOL!
“irst Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win [...]”
Yep challange factor.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not game, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not game, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not game, it profiteth me nothing. Game suffereth long, and is kind; game envieth not; game vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Game never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, game, these three; but the greatest of these is game.
–kudos to George Orwell’s forward to Keep the Aspidistra Flying
ah geezus – the ball breaker mmmm
Quote:
I’ve had men try these rules on me and then get angry when I don’t respond in a predictable way (i.e. chase them). This explains it all! I always had a feeling there’s some Game Bible floating around because men all over the U.S. try this stupid stuff.
These rules are great if your goal is to sleep with a large variety of (dumb) women. It also works if you want to sleep with a pretty woman with low self-esteem (jackpot!). But it doesn’t work if you’re looking for a quality woman for long-term. Choose your game wisely.
mmmmm….
so yr quality huh ? then come my way doll, i’ve bin looking for you… Now confide a little, if your sooooo hot and juicy as you claim and quality tooo, and a brain (very nice…) how come your number’s not in my book ? and I’d only consider you IF you had nice friends and you could look around you right here, right now and tell me 100 things in your universe invented by a woman, or a little easier 10, or you can have my number if you can tell me one, that’s right one…stuck are we ??? you betcha, so next time don’t be so hard on the guys, coz the YOU don’t get laid either !!! mark – mdaspinall@hotmail.com
anon2
Quote:
You men are so clueless. Women like men IN SPITE of the fact that they are “assholes” NOT BECAUSE OF. You men always confuse the two.
Insulting a woman doesn’t turn a man who is a 5 into a 10. In fact any time someone insults me they are usually making their ugly mug even uglier by their negativity.
hahahaha – happen a lot does it ??? i think you miss the point that friends/lovers and stuff DO in fact insult each other, its a sign of trust and an adult viewpoint expressing security. i have a big nose – so i get called big nose . great !!!!
if you mean someone insults your insecurities then GET OVER IT…
If some guy insluts (intentional) you its probably cuz you kicked him in the balls and you got a knee-jerk. stop whinging woman and get f******..life’s too short for whining and griping..
the male rebuff at being rebuffed himself is legendary :
guy : yr place or mine
girl : you go to yr place i’ll go to mine
guy : 2 be honest i dont give a f*** where ya go, after i’ve sha**ed you in the back of mi car…
get it now ???
mdaspinall
Wrong, I get lots of sex with my bad boy online dating profile,. the nice guy profile was a waste of time.
lol….I read the commandments and think, will men and women ever be able to overthrow their genetic imperative? I don’t disagree with them (the commandments) but certainly don’t think they are what we should aspire to (again, no moral judgement/disagreemnet is implied in my comment, especially since the biology they are based on is amoral in the first place). I just want to go beyond what my genes “tell” me to do.
That being said, in the sack I want nothing more than good old fashioned submission and domination – I like playing out those ancestral behaviors because they have, after all, evolved to be pleasurable
What moron is going to follow most of these? This is a great guide for a losing a woman as quick as possible or getting the worst kind. And half of them contradict the others.
“ebz202″
Who cares, they work, they get results…
lol…its fear is the mind killer actually
As a man presently in a menage a trois, I’d say you got about 2/3rd’s of it right. I guess that’s your mission.
I’m a beta, and so none of this comes naturally. I am realizing that, as a natural beta, I have a strong inclination to commit cardinal sins by the standards of these rules. (e.g. a penchant for apologizing profusely, and a tendency to reveal neediness… NOT good.) I am going to print them out and rehearse them regularly.
Is it not playing by her rules, state control, both, or something else to tell her, when she starts to talk about an old boyfriend, to shut up?
Okay, I think you’re just getting these out of Stuff Magazine, now. All of this shit sounds annoying, and I don’t know a single woman who’d really fall for this shit.
Independence and mutual support are more important than control. Bleh. Power games. Fuck that noise.
Roissy,
Bro you got to help me with one of my beta friends.
The situation could not be worse in his case either. Nick is a humorous smart guy who plays for our football team (Yeah, he should be set right?) But he has this mind frame that is messing with any potential game.
He says he loves this chick, and has for about a year or two. When i heard this, i asked him if he made any prior actions to get with her.
I was given the most beta explanation in the world: ” Oh yeah we text each other sometimes and i totally help her out with all her problems. And sometimes we talk during our lunch breaks when her friends don’t sit by her.”
I wanted to give up, right then and there. There is no WAY this guy is going to get with this girl with that attitude.
To see what he was talking about, i met this girl. She’s a short Latina with a cute face, and is nicer than most people. She isn’t the most intellectual person in the world, but hey, if she has looks she’s set.
If you haven’t guessed, I’m a sophomore in high school, and so far have had 9 sex closes. Anyways, i can tell she has a high social status with the upperclassmen and freshman.
Now Nick has some social status too with him being a varsity football player next year, but has yet to kiss a girl!
Worse, everyone knows it. I just don’t understand how you can have all the right qualities status wise and be a virgin.
He isn’t the most stylish or handsome guy, but i have seen guys worse off getting laid every weekend. I did give Nick some advice, but never a full on game plan on what he has to change to get with her.
I by this time have gotten myself determined to help my friend end his weekly visits with Rosy Palm and her 5 sisters.
If you got the time, e-mail me if you think you have a solution or need some more info.
I feel really really sorry for the men who are reading this, implementing these things, and then thinking that they’ve “found the way” to be happy and still be “manly”.
This “game” is nothing new. It’s called “lying”. Everyone in the dating world has done this for ages and it’s not some dark secret that if you act like an idiot you will attract an idiot. This is exactly what you guys are being taught.
If you were simply describing all of this advice as “way to get laid if you’re desperate” then it would be true. You could definitely get laid using these above methods. Sadly, all you are doing is preying on the weaknesses and insecurities of women who would be “easy prey” to start with. Using these methods will surely get a guy laid, but only by a woman who already hates herself to start with and if you need “pointers” on how to sleep with the most emotionally desperate woman at the bar, your problems are much bigger than “getting poon” (btw no man who gets laid uses the word “poon”).
Using these methods will make these men hate women (and themselves) even more because they will only be attracting women who are lower than average and do all of the sleazy things this dumbass says they do. You will never get a quality woman this way and since some guys have the “well I don’t want a woman, just some poon” attitude here, then what are you going to do when you’re older, disgusting, and fat? Do you gentlemen honestly believe that this “game” will lead you to a life filled with poon until the day you die? No, this will only make you old bitter woman haters with shriveled dicks and vague memories of the 5 years of your life where you actually got laid and all you can pathetically cling to is: “well at least I got some bottom of the barrel pussy” ?!
Please gentlemen don’t insult yourselves by thinking that your entire make-up is based on your “primal urge” to get laid and “spread your seed”. You are making yourselves look like mindless puppets that are only intelligent enough to follow your dick. I know a lot of quality men that would disagree with that statement.
“you betcha, so next time don’t be so hard on the guys, coz the YOU don’t get laid either !!! mark – mdaspinall@hotmail.com”
You think it’s hard for ANY woman to get laid? Oh you poor deluded fool. I could get laid by a hot of my choosing in 5 minutes. As a matter of fact, it’s so easy for women to get laid, that’s why men are so angry about the alleged power imbalance in a relationship. We have what you all want…and you have to share stupid rules like this with each other in order to get…what do you call it? Laid.
And Lady Rain is absolutely correct.
But the men who think this is good advice are probably only interested in getting “bottom of the barrel pussy”. That’s what makes them so lame that they can’t get “top-notch WOMEN”.
Geezus what is a top notch woman and what does she offer>
A top notch woman has a BRAIN and some respect for herself. The predatory methods here are the same a serial killer would use to target their prey except with none of intellectual “selection”. The difference is this method is “take whatever you can get” and is really really sad and would only draw out “bottom of the barrel” women for a quick lay. I can only imagine in ten years what this guys “sex life” will look like. (or any of these guys for that matter).
[...] The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon [...]
[...] [...]
A top notch woman isn’t just defined by her brains, lady Rain.
She is defined by her heart, her character, her soul.
Even the few men, like myself, who care about a woman’s intellect (I find it difficult to hang out with dummies), find it second to something in her soul and character.
The sarcastic, caustic, quick witted types don’t understand the fundamentally different way in which most men see the world, over most women.
Most of those types are just covering up their hearts anyway. Self defense mechanisms. This is understood, but it is a turn off.
An intelligent woman who is a good conversationalist but otherwise a bit of a bitch doesn’t interest me as much, beyond a casual carnal connection, perhaps even a grudge fuck, but I have less attraction to her, than a girl who is less bright but has a heart of gold.
Character matters, it trumps brains, and for some men can even trump looks (within limits, of course).
I would choose plainer girls with a demonstrably endearing heart of gold, over some hotter girls who may have been stimulating conversationalists but were really lacking in the character department.
This is within limits, there is an upper limit of hotness that I’d simply ignore a woman’s shit for. But the older I get the more these limits drift downward. And strangely the less a woman’s hotness impresses me. Your cute 6, or 7 types, or 8 types, please impress me with something other than your blazing intellect or sarcastic banter.
Now a very pretty girl, with a sincere and good heart, who is also intelligent and witty, though not to the point of boorishness, is a keeper in my book.
And more rare than 4 leaf clovers.
The tragedy of our generation is that men and women alike have been conditioned by society to misunderstand each other’s priorities.
Heart can trump brains, Hell Good looks can trump brains, though good looks with brains is prefered.
Heart and good looks, compete and joust. At the end of the day, I would probably take a plain jane (though fit, important provision, plain but fit) with a sweet and golden heart, over Stripper hot, but with a caustic acidic heart. most strippers aren’t that hot anyway without makeup, and models? The few I’ve known are simply just unusually pretty without makeup, but not so remarkable that I’d abandon my principles for. So a girl really has to bring something else to the table.
It bears mentioning for the record that deep inside every woman is some beautiful core of a heart, often locked up under years of wounds, defense mechanisms, scars, and heartbreaks. Someone who interests me enough I may be inclined to nurse a broken wing or two, it is nice to nurse somethings sad and broken and help bring out its inner beauty.
But no Capt. Save a Ho, no way, not at this stage of my life. If the pretty bird with a broken wing snaps with her beak, out she goes. Someone else’s problem.
The essence of a good heart is openness, compassion, and love. Someone who can’t be open and risk vulnerability for greater love, I have little interest in.
Plenty of fish.
“They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out.”
I cannot believe you typed out this entire sentence without realizing what a horrible person you are. Please leave Earth.
“II. Make her jealous
Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.”
yikes.. if a guy I was with openly flirted with other women in front of me, it wouldleave me cold. No girl wants a man that no other woman wants, that may be true, but I’d prefer a guy who doesn’t feel like he has to prove how desirable he is by flirting with any random chick who passes by.
I guess it all comes down to how secure he feels. If you need reassurance that you are worthy of female attention, then by all means flirt with other women, but know that you’re acting like a douche. If you inherently know you’re worthy of female attention, you won’t need to flirt with other women.
Roissy is very clever, but his ego comes from his game, his ability to play and dominate people. and in building this clever intelligence, he’s become the thing that he’s ranting against on here. basically he’s saying “women are assholes, so let’s be assholes back.” i think a smarter approach is ‘nobody needs to be an asshole, so let’s all stop’.
There’s some gems in his writing, but a lot of it is just exploitive crap that preys on weak women.
Just as there’s a shortage of quality men, there’s also a shortage of ‘quality’ women. basically ‘rules’ of any kind are an idiotic guideline, and trying to obey them is just being a follower. some people need to do that for awhile to grow, but hopefully roissy won’t turn too many guys into jerkoffs.
the place where Roissy really succeeds is that so many women are just stuck in their female role and it becomes this bitchy defense system, and they don’t even want to be that person–they’re just clueless about life. ideally a good man could use some of Roissy’s rules to get past her armor, AND THEN be an actual caring and real partner with her, and both of them work harmoniously and grow together. but there needs to be somewhere for them to grow TOWARDS.
I think the core problem is that people with no passions in life are always going to get bored. They’re simply boring people who don’t use their minds. People with passions don’t need rules, we just automatically connect to each other and are living rich lives independent of relationships. What do passionless people connect on? sex/bodies for awhile, and then what? favorite television shows? bowling?
Humanity, in this era, is a pale shriveled shadow of what it could be. As far as I can tell, we’ve got exploitive pricks dominating a majority for the last couple thousand years at least… and humanity’s spirit is so beaten down into a ‘worker/consumer’ mentality that its become nothing but a herd of idiots being run by some clever salespeople. if you’re an idiot, its a really good idea to start exploring new interests and see what the world has to offer you.
one thing i really like in one of Roissy’s writings is telling men to stop feeling embarrassed of their day to day sexual impulses— THAT is one of the cancerous weights that stifles all people, and it needs to go away, just like religion does.
[...] to advise someone, as a practical matter, to believe things that are irrational as beliefs. Indeed, such advice sometimes is given (scroll down to #11; HT: Overcoming [...]
Fucking genius.
(New to your blogs, but I like what I’ve read, and I will read more)
Although, I must say that I once saved a relationship by admitting I was afraid of loosing her.
That relationship doubled it’s time from that point and continues today.
[...] The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon [...]
They should have put this in the Bible.
jesus….lol i have just been through this with my ex boyfriend….i think the reason this shit works, is because beautiful women do not like to be rejected, we are so used to having all the power, that we stick around to try and figure out what the hell the problem is! But the Sex thing is what kept me around, if he wasnt so damn good at it, i would have left a long long time ago! lol but now i know that he was definatly living by these commandments!
Mind games won’t get you far with me and I am good at spotting them. I can see those little wheels turning when someone is trying to manipulate me. Whatever happened to fucking honesty and open communication?
Can’t identify with this list, and can’t find anything about my husband on it either. Thankfully.
See bonnie now that is where you would lose a point on the market test for woman for swearing.
Whoops
[...] familiar to anybody familiar with BDSM and dominant/submissive relationships. Thus, for example, in The Sixteen Commandments of Poon, Roissy writes: If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething [...]
I enjoyed the Dune reference.
[...] important insight, found buried among much that is questionable: There is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of [...]
This is pretty stupid, and kind of sounds like a lot of work. How do you relax if you are always worrying about manipulating the situation and following rules? My advice to men. Be the guy you would want to date if you were the girl you want to be with. Genuine awesomeness and the confidence that comes with it is a turn on. If you are depending on rules like this to “cheat” your way into a relationship, it probably isn’t going to get you far.
The funny things is, women here that are bitching about the rules, doesn’t understand that they exist because of their own fault. Because the “quality women” doesn’t exist in large numbers and they are giving “love”, sex and care almost for free to bad boys and assholes.
So, If men keep being betas, too nice, they will die alone because the truth is women like bad boys, like high status high testosterone men and if men don’t follow these things with women they will die alone and with no sex because the quality women are just 5% of population and the 95% are promiscuous, bitches, stupid, gold diggers, emotionally disturbed people.
So there’s no where else to go and Roissy did a great job saving men of being slaves of a society where 20% of men get 80% of women
My website silviokoerich.blogpost.com is the first anti-feminist blog in portuguese and the truth is, women worldwide are the same. Here in Brazil, they go too for the alpha, bad boys, rich men. If we stay being nice and how you SAY a man should be, we die alone.
So you can bitch and shame us, but it’s women’s fault. If women cared and went for nice betas, there wouldn’t be a single men complaining or doing theses lists
You just got owned by me
Holy shit dude wtf is up with that pic of anorexic chic on your site. I thought I knew anorexic chic that is insane.
What are the divorce rules in portugal?
Never been to your Blog before: it was referred to me. On reading this thread, however, couldn’t help but notice that most of the females that are critical of the points you enumerated are exactly the type I have found less than desirable. Because, I suspect, they believe that these represent some kind of “mind game.” They just don’t get it. It’s simply a way of thinking that is natural to some men.
Men who are uncomfortable with it should probably not try to emulate it, because they will unconsciously cherry-pick their actions to be consistent with what they are comfortable with, and that lack of consistency will be evident.
If I were to pick one “commandment” that I am less than happy with, it would be the second (Make her jealous). There are destructive aspects of that. I have never deliberately made any woman jealous, because the so-called “leverage” that that might provide is often offset by preconceived associated traits that would create a lack of confidence. Dominance is natural, and its positive perception (to most women) is that it transmits strength, and part of that strength is an anciently-admired aspect called “strength of character.” If you are comfortable with the other “commandments,” you will have so much female attention that you will never have to worry about deliberately making any of them jealous…
Gunslingergregi
Hey man, i’m from Brazil. Divorce laws are bad here too.
That photo is very disgusting isn’t it.
Cheers to the american friends.
Bottom line: Brad Pitt could act like the biggest beta dousche to girls, and he would still be able to sleep with whoever he wants. Point? These rules are for for men who have to scheme and can’t get quality girls naturally. She knows if she would sleep with you within 5 seconds, everyone knows that, and you can’t do anything about it.
A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE WAY MEN AND WOMEN THINK:
One female commenter above posted as Anonymous said: “No girl wants a man that no other woman wants”
Men could care less if he was the only one on earth who found a woman attractive. If it turned him on hed be happy.
This outlines a fundamental difference between the ways men and women value the other sex.
Women’s views of men are heavily influenced by what other women think of their man. It appears that the man they choose is more of a status symbol than a human being. What guy wants to be viewed as that, and not really cared about personally????
Female commenters please leave your opinion
I would love to hear Roissy expand on this topic, since Im sure hes thought about it before, but it just occured to me……………….
God this is pathetic
so, you’re a beta type in monogamous relationship, but yearn for all the alpha perks???
http://www.takeninhand.com/ and take the tour
Is “dousche” the French Translation?
LMAO! Wow could you be any more useless to society?
I was wondering where I read all this before. It was during a storm of controversy that surrounded a book called “The Rules.” In a nutshell this book said basically the trick is to keep someone off-balance and if you can do that you own their ass.
It was written by two obnoxious females — FOR females. LOL
Yikes. If anyone ever needs a guide for how NOT to date women, I will direct then here because most of these “rules” are terrible advice. In my eyes, any man behaves like the “ideal” according to this list will come off as a creepy, arrogant asshole. That’s really too bad, because those men are probably, by and large, decent guys who are just trying far too hard.
Women aren’t a monolithic alien entity. I’d suggest replacing this overwrought list of commandments with this:
1. Treat us like human beings.
Silvio Koerich, re. these rules existing because they are “[women's] own fault,” I argue that there are no rules in love. There are just individuals who operate according to their changeable needs and desires. I’m not in love with a “bad boy,” and I’m certainly not a gold digger because I’m dating a college student. I don’t know about Brazil, but in this country, if you’re in college, you’re poor by default. I’m certain there are plenty of women who would date you if you treated them decently, but most of the “commandments” on this list are absolutely godawful advice. If you behave like this toward women, I’m not surprised if you’re being rejected. Just saying…
Love,
A woman
The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon?
Sad. Just sad.
This is a pile of bullshit.
if you guys start seeing women as people, it would solve a lot of problems.
if you follow these “rules,” we’re going to treat you like the dick you are: fuck you, use you, and leave you for the next girl bored enough to entertain your pathetic gaming.
[editor: and the downside to this is...?]
every girl sees through it.
u gotta make sure your not genuinely attached 2 her otherwise u might care about her for real, just pretend you like her as a human being otherwise you’ll b wasting your time doing stupid crap like giving a fuck about other ppl!
So, what should a guy do when a Woman is aware of all these games he’s playing but she just really wants to fuck, too? Why would a guy tell a girl that is content with fucking him that he loves her? Then, what should he do when she finds him on a porn site where he states he likes “both” ( men and women), tells him to better hide his screen name, but then she never mentions the fact he is a closet bi-sexual?
And why would he pick a crazy one to play games with?
I just… I could fuck him over so bad. He did it to me without thinking twice. Totally humiliated me. I know that guys like you pick girls like me because it’s easy. But where is the challenge or game in that? And also because I WON’T actually humiliate anyone. It’s not in my nature. At what point does it just become cruelty? Now, I am obsessed with the fact that someone purposely hurt me. It’s a patience thing I guess,why this guy stopped talking to me I mean. But I can be just as patient and persistent that I am not a piece of trash to be swept under a rug… it’s just in a different way. Does it really take all the fun out of it when a girl catches you in all your tricks, even if she still gets spun up in your web? I just don’t get why you do it.
Yeah, I guess you should post one more commandment that says “Don’t fuck with a Bi-Polar single mother who’s been alone for two years and has ADD, anxiety disorder, who punched a police officer in the head last time she was arrested, and will email pictures of your cock she found on a porn site to all your loved ones with a note explaining that you a big homo and a sociopath… even if she seems easily exploitable”
lol dumb bitch are you really a dumb bitch? Bitch I can believe but the dumb I have my doubts.
But woman are contantly getting revenge like almost all of them in divorce court. They get revenge on the guy for making their life easy and taking care of them all those years. Really payback time then.
I have never asked for anything from a guy. I didn’t even attempt to ruin my Baby’s Daddy’s life, even though I TOTALLY could. He got married while I was pregnant, and got his original Baby Mama knocked up again… long story short, she doesn’t know about me or my daughter. He’s never even seen her, and I have never asked for anything. I don’t think all women are out to screw people over.
This other guy I’m talking about though, just never responded to any of my questions, there for gave me no secure grounds for a reaction. This led me to question my own sanity and really screwed up my whole little world. Unfortunately I realize that this is just another part of his game. Well, I can’t stop thinking about it because I never got the chance to process it or deal with it. I knew he was full of shit, and called him on it. Do you think that made it more of a challenge? I’m just saying… Don’t fuck with the unstable.
Love is some powerful stuff, man. Lovesick people are capable of crazy things. It actually changes the chemistry in your brain, you know? My Father was so terrible to my Step Mother that she killed herself. She’s dead. It happened like 16 years ago. He’ll never forgive himself for it.
“Women aren’t a monolithic alien entity”
BLASPHEMY!! Oh, you have no -idea- how many points that cost you. I bet your nose-eyebrow ratio is below the mean, too. D’you have any standard deviations? Non standard? What’s the average rainfall in the Amazon Basin? Wat R U Waring?
What a load of bullshit alpha male crap.
First, notice that NOT all woman are made the same, it’s a wide generalization that serves no purposes but that of reassuring you that once you know the “secret” about a women, you know them all. Sure, as if knowing a car implied you know all cars , you know it for a fact it’s not true.
1. Never say I love you first
Right, what are you, afraid of expressing emotions? What’s even remotely wrong with that? If you fancy being the so called “alpha” , why are you afraid of YOUR emotions ? Possibily because you know that once you told her your truth, she’ll be in control of your whole emotional world by some magic spell you have just said? Not even Harry Potter contains so much bullshit magic.
II. Make her jealous
Sure, flirt with others if you like. But take responsability of the consequences, as they will come hard and fast except when you are dealing with an extremely insecure person that craves your attention so much her head is up your ass she can barely breathe. Don’t cry when she find somebody else that doesn’t make her feel out of control and dumps you, don’t cry when she constantly harrasses you because she is MAD jealous about you turning your life in an eternal cat fight.
III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
What, you are on a mission from god ? Well then follow your delusion and leave the rest of us alone please as we have others things to do than entertaining your unachievable aims. Indeed many woman do like to follow a dominant figure, confident man, but dominant to a woman is what a woman thinks is dominant , not a whiplash slave master for sure (nobody likes that kind of an asshole), not what some man may think dominant is.
V. Adhere to the golden ratio
That’s good if you want to build the parthenon, but it’s otherwise useless. But let’s make thing easier for the tick bricks: what do you think when a person doesn’t call you back and plays hard to get? That he/she is not interested enough. That’s it, why does it hurt you so much?
VI. Keep her guessing
Acting misterious is not the same as being genuinely intriguing and then again what is intriguing to somebody isn’t to somebody else. Study, read, learn, do something original, don’t be superficial. If you can do that, then becoming interesting is automatic, as few really can do that or have the resolve needed to endure for more then a few days.
VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary
Which means, when you _really_ feel you have done something wrong to her/him, not just pretending to be sorry in order to defuse. It’s a lot better to be honest and even risk looking foolish than being know as a liar.
VII. Always keep two in the kitty
Pretending that you will not suffer if a breakup occours because you have an infinite number of others womans/man avaiable just betrays that you are scared shitless of being dumped. It’s pretending and it shows, otherwise why should you be always suggesting you have other options?
Enough talk. Does anyone have any dating success stories to tell?
There are many women who agree with the rules on this post – and a fair amount of ladies who gave a well articulated disagreement to the rules of poon; However, there are also a few who replied with heated anger, which will only intensify Roissy’s opinion (stated in rule IV) that women are tempest filled creatures ruled by their emotions.
Am I supporting this stereotype? Absolutely not! I simply am saying that if you disagree with his opinion, don’t reply in a way that fulfills it. He’s not going to respond to emotional outrage. Lets try logic.
With that said, Roissy, let me add in my 2 cents about the rules of poon from the experience of a “nascent alpha female” (According to the results I received on your test). As a ‘7′ on the dating scale, I’m attractive, so I have witnessed many a man’s “game.” Yet I’m not a super alpha, therefore I myself still need to have some “game” at my own disposal.
I’m not going to comment on every rule btw, just the ones that I feel a need to discuss.
II. Make her jealous
This rule is probably the least helpful.
Example: One of my close friends is a super-alpha and she has a considerate and kind personality. (And no, I’m not just saying she’s an alpha because she is my friend, she is the prototypical attractive female with feminine features, lithe-but still has B sized breasts, curvy legs, smooth complexion, etc.) A veritable gold mine in the dating world! She went on a date with a male who ended up making out with her roommate right in front of her. She ended up sneaking out and never speaking to the guy again.
With that random anecdote aside, while a female might find it slightly arousing for other women to think her man is hot, most women would be insulted if their man, in turn, openly flirted with the other ladies.
In short. Men, be flattered when other women flirt with you, but graciously refuse their attentions instead of jumping upon them like a man with no control.
If you say that women like a man with a sense of “control.” A man who isn’t controlled entirely by impulse can and should refuse the attentions of others, in the process of wooing his date.
III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority
I actually agree with this to an extent.
Does this mean treating your woman like the wallpaper or white noise of your life? No. Should she be the theme song then? No.
Your mate, (male or female), is the passenger alongside you on this crazy journey that is life. You ride together, learn together, grow together, and perhaps even grow old together. But if you stare at your mate the entire time you are trying to drive somewhere, you are going to crash.
People are attracted to other people who have meaningful and event filled lives, as well as a since of purpose. If you love to play guitar for example, don’t abandon playing music completely because your partner exclaims that you’re not “spending enough time with them!” Do you ignore your partner completely for the sake of guitar? No! Managing the time and energy you spend on a romantic/sexual partner is similar to juggling the time and energy you exert on a job/family relationships/and friendships. Harmony and balance are the keys to a peaceful life. If you are with a partner that demands you spend all of your free time on “their emotional needs,” well – to be frank – dump their ass. Someone who truly cares about you will care enough to value your “mission” whether it be curing cancer or leveling up your World of Warcraft character – so long as you take your partner along for the ride- and enjoy your partner’s mission alongside your own.
IV. Don’t play by her rules
Yes and No. We are viewing relationships here in black and white terms, where either the male is dominant or the female is dominant.
I say that there should be an attempt at balance between both. Obviously a female is going to be turned off by a male that sycophantically molds to her every desire like a used tampon. I can’t speak for all males, but I know several males who feel the same way about females. Human beings want to be in a relationship with other humans, not a “Yes” machine.
Women value men with character, a unique set of values, and personality quirks. If a man flushes these treasures down the toilet for the sake of another person’s whims, he is no better than a department store mannequin.
A relationship is about figuring out what sacrifices are worth making for another person’s happiness and what aren’t; there is no binary “yes” and “no” answer to this issue. If you are not willing to sacrifice a single thing for your mate, the longevity of the relationship will decrease. Don’t sacrifice too little and don’t sacrifice too much. Sacrifice enough to keep her grateful, but not bored.
VII. Always keep two in the kitty
“Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone.”
Having a replacement woman available is like telling your kid that you can buy them a new dog after their beloved childhood pet has just been run over. “It’s not the same!”
If you truly love a woman enough to feel emotionally gutted after she leaves you, having some random person on standby won’t fill up the romantic void in your soul.
Another person can’t mimic or replace the emotional connection you had in a prior relationship.
This strategy seems like it could only work if the two women involved are merely friends with benefits, not romantic partners.
Having a second woman around threatening your marriage is more of a liability than a safety net. More often than not, people usually find out about these secret affairs. Infidelity, statistically, is actually one of the highest causes for divorce in America.
X. Ignore her beauty
Yes, I agree. Compliment a beautiful girl on her personality, not her looks. Many hot girls feel insecure about their personalities because men notice their appearance first, which isn’t a bad thing, but it is difficult for appearance not to stand when someone has high caliber looks. Be different and suggest that she’s smart, intriguing, kind, or fun to be around.
XIV. Fuck her good
Hell to the Yes!
XV. Maintain your state control
I would agree with this had it not assumed that women are crying, manipulative, messes. From my own experience, I have been dating/living with a guy for two years and he has only seen me cry once, and that was for a matter that wasn’t even related to our relationship.
If anyone would try to manipulate you by a crying emotional mess on a regular basis, they are unstable – weak – and probably in need of some help.
That is, unless you’re the one making them cry. Be assertive but don’t be abusive. Chicks like dicks, not assholes. A dick fucks a pussy good, but an asshole is just a pussy full of shit (Yeah, I know, I ripped that from Team America: World Police) Stay strong to your core values, but don’t belittle her own values or threaten her with abuse/violence to get your way. That’s even weaker than being a emotional wreck.
XVI. Never be afraid to lose her
I agree. Act with compassion, not fear. Trust is the rock of a relationship.
***
~ Best wishes to those seeking love, I hope you find it.
betti:
mixed bag you’ve got there. i will address the points on which you are wrong.
re (II)
you do know that “flirting” doesn’t consist of making out with other women, do you not?
Men, be flattered when other women flirt with you, but graciously refuse their attentions instead of jumping upon them like a man with no control.
typical postmodern bitch nonsense.
flirtation is an art, a social lubricant, which, once upon a time, graced male-female interactions throughout the whole cross section of life.
thanks to attitudes like yours, flirtation has virtually disappeared from the west, unless it’s, shall we say, goal-oriented.
this is to be lamented.
–
re (III)
you were doing so well, until the last line.
a man is happiest when his mission is his #1 priority, and his woman is there for the ride.
a woman is happiest when her man is her #1 priority, and her mission is there on the side.
–
re (VII)
Having a second woman around threatening your marriage
once upon a time, women had the sense to realize that the occasional mistress was, and is, NOT a threat to men’s commitment to their wives.
instead, the mistress will often stoke the man’s fires in such a way that he’ll bring some extra heat home to the missus.
with the disappearance of the commonsense notion that women are not men, has arisen the laughable notion that male infidelity is just as harmful as women’s.
hint: it’s not.
This is all confirmation of what most grown men know in their heart of hearts to be true.
It’s just a shame that for so many American women it takes 3 failed marriages over 15 years to figure out “what they really want” because they have been so completely railroaded by feminism and post modern BS.
By then, after all the train wreck relationships, financially ruined fathers and husbands, single motherhood-whoredom for a number of years — they end up as bitter dried up hags nobody wants.
The protestations from elpa and Betti are mere confirmation of everything here, along with overstating the obvious and other non-points.
Quite entertaining. Proof positive that women really do think (mostly) with their emotions.
Tell me Zacky4, how have the sixteen commandments of poon worked for you?
[...] Ignorance or Intentional Misdirection? Kathleen M of View from the Right believes after Roissy (the brutally honest Rake that appears to be achieving some sort of critical mass in the media) [...]
IX down is pretty good advice.
Except for the one about being too bold…that’s not going to work for all girls.
Anything above IX might get you shot. Everything doesn’t work for everybody. While one guy might be able to pull the entire list off, another guy will try it with his girlfriend and get ripped to bloody shreds.
IX and down is pretty safe though.
Good luck with your old bag 10 years down the load, you will be poppin blue pills and conjuring every kinky memory to get a decent wood for the expired girlfriend of urs.
And 10 years from now, most of the “Game” cultists will still be alone and bitter and with nothing to live for except their next orgasm, the money they would have spent on a wife having been spent instead on Valtrex and cocaine. Another 5 or so years after that and even the Girls Gone Wild rejects they were so used to “peacocking” will no longer be willing to scrounge for dick beneath a middle-aged mangut. No way to know just when they’ll die, but you can be sure that 1 day later no one on Earth will ever know that they had lived.
Most people learn quickly in life that the “prom queen” douchebags from high school end up being the saddest and most far-fallen, since their life peaked the soonest. It’s a perversion of the natural order for a bunch of hipster douchebags to try to re-create those conditions. It’s like a diaper fetish–people find immature escapism to be TEH KEWL.
It’s telling that one of the “testimonials” for this fad earlier in this thread was a high school sophomore posting about how the techniques listed here got him laid. Congrats to him an’ all, but I’d say what really got him laid was that he was legally allowed and HIGHLY technologically empowered (texting, Facebook etc.) to fuck dumb 14-year-old girls.
OHHHH I get it. This is a joke. Okay. And you’re not really a good comedian. Sorry.
[...] of their affection, etc. Every last detail is contrived strategy, and the inevitable effect of the sundry deceptions is a relationship with someone who doesn’t actually like you even if you wind up having sex [...]
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Cold shower, you are full of shit. A long term relationship needs similar things, although less extreme than these commandments. These things will make BOTH parties happier and if you don’t understand this you have never been in a good relationship.
The protestations from elpa and Betti are mere confirmation of everything here, along with overstating the obvious and other non-points.
Quite entertaining. Proof positive that women really do think (mostly) with their emotions.
——————
That’s all the argument you can give? Evidently so, it’s so easy to quit and say “ok, you are all wrong and that proves me right”. But that only proves that you can’t argument. Facing your own misconceptions and errors requires uncommon streght, while it’s a lot easier to believe whaterver the next Bullshit Messia says you, it doesn’t require critical thinking, let alone self critical thinking, thats one of the reasons for religions being so successful in indoctrination.
master of conception
PUAs wouldn’t know what a good relationship is even if God himself descended from the heavens and explained it to them.
elpa:
You’re obviously a little fumed–Zacky4 was pretty spot on.
We all know how big-time important *your* thoughts and ideas are, but MEN are speaking.
you know who:
Better to have had one hundred short, passionate relationships than one long, ultimately pointless relationship.
Any intelligent person with some game in reserve should know that.
It’s not a matter of intelligence, it’s a matter of preference.
Commandment VI is the love-killer. Faithful execution of Commandment VI is the ego-triumph that brings abject loneliness. You will face an opportunity to build trust. You will permit it to pass over and through you. And when trust is gone, only your paranoid fear of healthy adult relationships will remain. And sex with stupid chicks. You will still have lots of that.
The other commandments are pretty good too.
i think you hate real women so much because they have what you want (bot only on a physical level) and you don’t want to have to deal with them as people. this is classic male chauvinism born of male fear of women. if you really dislike women -and it certainly appears that many men -and the traditional women here too-who’ve commented do – why not do the Plato thing? the word Platonic originally referred to intellectual and sexual relationships between men – not “romantic” relationships. Plato believed that women were inferior and that a true relationship could only exist among equals -men. women were there for reproduction only (don’t know about the domestic thing) why don’t you just fuck each other if you’re so in love with men as superior beings?
Clip-
“i think you hate real women so much because they have what you want (bot only on a physical level) and you don’t want to have to deal with them as people. this is classic male chauvinism born of male fear of women. if you really dislike women -and it certainly appears that many men -and the traditional women here too-who’ve commented do – why not do the Plato thing? the word Platonic originally referred to intellectual and sexual relationships between men – not “romantic” relationships. Plato believed that women were inferior and that a true relationship could only exist among equals -men. women were there for reproduction only (don’t know about the domestic thing) why don’t you just fuck each other if you’re so in love with men as superior beings?”
Brilliant! I’ve wondered the same thing! Why don’t the men who adopt this chavanistic nonsense start fucking each other and get some of that cum out of their bodies (since it seems to be screwing up their perception of reality).
They keep telling us that men are so great, well if you men are so great then why do you act like you’d rather put a bullet in your head then have a date each other. Put down the bottle of Smirnoff and the World of War Craft and go learn to suck cock. You can even help each other pay your child support, what could be more romantic? lol! If men are the kings, head of households, the leaders of women…maybe you should start leading by example. If I ever need a blow job tutorial I’m going to take one from “Brad” not ‘Brenda”. Brad will suck your brains out and you know it!
And I mean have a relationship with men, not just sex (believe it or not a lot more men then we mormally would suspect engage in homosexual sex at one point during their life or another.) Stop bugging women and trying to change our nature to suit your needs. You want cock worship then you needs you a man. Two snaps in a circle, BITCH!
Say what you want about the lesbian feminist but they are not afraid to put their mouth where the money is…um…so to speak…
Ouch. Any truly high-quality woman (gorgeous, nice, etc.) is going to see nothing but a HURT LITTLE BOY in these. One who gets laid, and probably a lot, but still a hurt, little boy.
“I. Never say ‘I Love You’ first”
I’d say never say it, PERIOD. Then again, my next book’s working title is LOVE CONQUERS NOTHING. In that book, I have an even BETTER deflection that will drive her even MORE crazy than if you hadn’t said anything about loving her.
You then write:
“Women want to feel like they have to overcome obstacles to win a man’s heart. They crave the challenge of capturing the interest of a man who has other women competing for his attention, and eventually prevailing over his grudging reluctance to award his committed exclusivity. The man who gives his emotional world away too easily robs women of the satisfaction of earning his love. Though you may be in love with her, don’t say it before she has said it. Show compassionate restraint for her need to struggle toward yin fulfillment. Inspire her to take the leap for you, and she’ll return the favor a thousandfold.”
Then she’ll be out the door once the “challenge” is won. This is “challenge fox” theory, which I wrote about in Outfoxing The Foxes, my 1998 book. If she wanted your heart, rather than the challenge, she wouldn’t play this game and risk losing you. You say “women” as if all are equal. If you think that, you aren’t picking them as well as you could.
“II. Make her jealous”
Unprovoked emotional abuse is not wise. This will cost you the ONE type of woman who isn’t like the garbage that responds to this. Worse, if it DOES work, you wind up with a gameplayer for a girlfriend or wife, and YOU lose.
“Flirt with other women in front of her. Do not dissuade other women from flirting with you. Women will never admit this but jealousy excites them. The thought of you turning on another woman will arouse her sexually.”
Then publish your sexual exploits. Got tons of them in my next book, many of which will be in the free chapter, which will be read by hot women, etc.
“No girl wants a man that no other woman wants. The partner who harnesses the gale storm of jealousy controls the direction of the relationship.”
Basic PIVOT theory. I see you’ve read 29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy (1999), where I debuted and defined the pivot.
“III. You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority”
Just make sure you don’t miss the woman when she disappears while you were focusing on your mission. Good advice there for many situations, but the exceptions are too notable. Lots of throwing the baby out with the bathwater there.
Say, are we supposed to just TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT when you say you get laid? How do we know the women YOU think are hot are all that hot? You can be anyone or anything you want when anonymous.
“Forget all those romantic cliches of the leading man proclaiming his undying love for the woman who completes him. Despite whatever protestations to the contrary, women do not want to be “The One” or the center of a man’s existence.”
Actually, some do, but guess what? They are WITH the man they want this with, in a drama-free relationship, rather than trying to get your attention in a bar. Now if you aren’t ATTRACTING this type of woman, that’s a separate problem.
“They in fact want to subordinate themselves to a worthy man’s life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with their feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out.”
SUBMISSIVE women want this. Not all women are submissive, and not all nonsubmissive women are dominant. A drug dealer might think all women are crack whores, but that doesn’t mean they are. You are confusing YOUR world with THE world. The latter is a much bigger place.
“You must respect a woman’s integrity and not lie to her that she is “your everything”. ”
PUAs lie by omission all the time, and lie about their agenda. Most will not be honest and cost themselves a lay, and most will spend money even if they aren’t “supposed” to. Respect and “game” don’t mix.
“She is not your everything, and if she is, she will soon not be anymore.”
That will be HER loss and your ultimate gain. You’re ignoring the times a guy doesn’t lose her for doing this, but those guys don’t buy bootcamps or products, do they?
“IV. Don’t play by her rules”
Depends on how she enforces them.
“If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man.”
Sodini believed this, and shot up a health club when reality told him otherwise. What happens when she doesn’t play along? The “alpha” has two choices: escalate (Sodini), or back down (beta). Are you saying you want all women to be like this, or can’t fathom that not all are like it (I assume you’d be fucking the latter if you thought it existed and could attract it).
“Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.”
You think women are EMOTIONAL? You’re confusing the use of drama for manipulation with actual emotion. If women were guided by emotion, they wouldn’t be so cruel. The women you described here are emotionally weak. Is this what you want, or do you believe you can’t do better?
“V. Adhere to the golden ratio”
“Give your woman 2/3 of everything she gives you. For every three calls or texts, give her two back. Three declarations of love earn two in return. Three gifts; two nights out. Give her two displays of affection and stop until she has answered with three more. When she speaks, you reply with fewer words. When she emotes, you emote less. The idea behind the golden ratio is twofold — it establishes your greater value by making her chase you, and it demonstrates that you have the self-restraint to avoid getting swept up in her personal dramas. Refraining from reciprocating everything she does for you in equal measure instills in her the proper attitude of belief in your higher status. In her deepest loins it is what she truly wants.”
True love doesn’t have to keep score. If it’s not true love, it’s a game.
“VI. Keep her guessing”
“True to their inscrutable natures, women ask questions they don’t really want direct answers to. Woe be the man who plays it straight — his fate is the suffering of the beta. Evade, tease, obfuscate. She thrives when she has to imagine what you’re thinking about her, and withers when she knows exactly how you feel. A woman may want financial and family security, but she does not want passion security. In the same manner, when she has displeased you, punish swiftly, but when she has done you right, reward slowly. Reward her good behavior intermittently and unpredictably and she will never tire of working hard to please you.”
In Foxes (1998), I said a curious woman was the equivalent of a horny male. Have you broken new ground with this?
“VII. Always keep two in the kitty
Never allow yourself to be a “kept man”. A man with options is a man without need. It builds confidence and encourages boldness with women if there is another woman, a safety net, to catch you in case you slip and risk a breakup, divorce, or a lost prospect, leading to loneliness and a grinding dry spell. A woman knows once she has slept with a man she has abdicated a measure of her power; when she has fallen in love with him she has surrendered nearly all of it. But love is ephemeral and with time she may rediscover her power and threaten to leave you. It is her final trump card. Withdrawing all her love and all her body in an instant will rend your soul if you are faced with contemplating the empty abyss alone. Knowing there is another you can turn to for affection will fortify your will and satisfy your manhood.”
This is what women do to men when they keep a nice-guy around as a Plan B. If a man can start over from scratch, he doesn’t need to do this. Are your skills so lacking that you can’t just rebuild if and when that time comes?
Not all women like competition, and some will reject you for not being smart enough to see their superiority. Then you wind up stuck with an inferior “backup” option, or benchwarmer.
“VIII. Say you’re sorry only when absolutely necessary”
How about when you’re actually sorry? Or did something wrong?
“Do not say you’re sorry for every wrong thing you do. It is a posture of submission that no man should reflexively adopt, no matter how alpha he is. Apologizing increases the demand for more apologies. She will come to expect your contrition, like a cat expects its meal at a set time each day. And then your value will lower in her eyes. Instead, if you have done something wrong, you should acknowledge your guilt in a glancing way without resorting to the actual words “I’m sorry.” Pull the Bill Clinton maneuver and say “Mistakes were made” or tell her you “feel bad” about what you did. You are granted two freebie “I’m sorry”s for the life of your relationship; use them wisely.”
Wow, Bill Clinton. A man with a perfect love life.
“IX. Connect with her emotions”
By acting in a contrived manner? Artificial connections don’t count. That is manipulation, not emotional connection. You also aren’t separating yourself from other men when you use mainstream-media techniques, which these now are. PUA is the new AFC. Look at all the ENERGY you are putting into a gender you claim to not care about. Unless you have a profit motive (have you disclosed all financial ties like the FTC wants everyone to?), you’re “protesting too much.”
“X. Ignore her beauty”
Oh please. She’ll think you’re gay, stupid, blind, or just LYING. If you were really getting what you want from women, would you even BOTHER playing these games?
“The man who trains his mind to subdue the reward centers of his brain when reflecting upon a beautiful female face will magically transform his interactions with women. His apprehension and self-consciousness will melt away, paving the path for more honest and self-possessed interactions with the objects of his desire. This is one reason why the greatest lotharios drown in more love than they can handle — through positive experiences with so many beautiful women they lose their awe of beauty and, in turn, their powerlessness under its spell. It will help you acquire the right frame of mind to stop using the words hot, cute, gorgeous, or beautiful to describe girls who turn you on. Instead, say to yourself “she’s interesting” or “she might be worth getting to know”. Never compliment a girl on her looks, especially not a girl you aren’t fucking. Turn off that part of your brain that wants to put them on pedestals. Further advanced training to reach this state of unawed Zen transcendence is to sleep with many MANY attractive women (try to avoid sleeping with a lot of ugly women if you don’t want to regress). Soon, a Jedi lover you will be.”
It is great when a man can keep a cool head even when dealing with a super-hottie, but few can actually do this. He also can’t do it to get the initial experience in fucking hot women that he needs to desensitize himself. By the time he has that experience, he is desensitized, so he still needs a bridge. Or, as I used to ask, how do you “go fuck ten other women” when you can’t even fuck the ONE you want?
“XI. Be irrationally self-confident”
“No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse.”
Oh this is rich. I DID this, and all you wannabe-alpha “guru” types would AMOG me for not conforming to gamekilling stereotypes. Often, what appeared a weakness to a misinformed public was a huge strength. The overconfident cabdriver might be amusing, but he will come off more as delusional. Being entertaining might get him laid, but that just means his career could use a boost.
“It does nt matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are.”
Even if a guy like you is AMOGing him over the very things you tell him aren’t supposed to matter?
“Women”
Not all, just the ones you seem to cross paths with a lot.
“have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them.”
Do you want women who are this vicious? Can’t you do better?
“Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.”
So stop AMOGing guys whose “lifestyle” doesn’t measure up to some “rockstar” ideal.
“XII. Maximize your strengths, minimize your weaknesses.
In the betterment of ourselves as men we attract women into our orbit. To accomplish this gravitational pull as painlessly and efficiently as possible, you must identify your natural talents and shortcomings and parcel your efforts accordingly. If you are a gifted jokester, don’t waste time and energy trying to raise your status in philosophical debate. If you write well but dance poorly, don’t kill yourself trying to expand your manly influence on the dancefloor. Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. Except World of Warcraft.”
This is hardly groundbreaking.
“XIII. Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all.”
If she’s a slut, sure. If not, you may have cost yourself that “one special girl,” who generally wants to be treated as such.
“Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known.”
Unless she REALLY doesn’t want him, at which point she calls the cops.
“You don’t have to be an asshole, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate asshole beats being a polite beta, every time.”
Not every time, and the times it doesn’t, wipe out the times it does fifty times over. You might not be the PUA you think you are if you don’t see this.
“XIV. Fuck her good”
Fuck her like it’s your last fuck. And hers. Fuck her so good, so hard, so wantonly, so profligately that she is left a quivering, sparking mass of shaking flesh and sex fluids. Drain her of everything, then drain her some more. Kiss her all over, make love to her all night, and hold her close in the morning. Own her body, own her gratitude, own her love. If you don’t know how, learn to give her squirting orgasms.”
Love the subcommunication that you are such a great lover. You think PASSION is a substitute for SEXUAL EXPERTISE?
“XV. Maintain your state control”
You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.”
Mastery over a gameplaying, drama-addicted slut. Can you not do better? Or do you think nice girls suck in bed?
“XVI. Never be afraid to lose her”
If you aren’t afraid of losing her, she isn’t worth keeping.
“The closer you follow the letter of these commandments, the easier you will find and keep real, true unconditional love and happiness in your life.”
No, the more you’ll get laid by slutty, random hot chicks who play games. Can you not do better?
Ray Gordon
“Love Conquers Nothing”
http://www.toosmarttofail.com
50k for a book,Ray?Hmmm.
Stephanie,
It wasn’t the sex that kept you around. You decided he was a great lover by sexually stereotyping the men you ignored as inferior.
If sex were the key, you’d be auditioning other men a lot more. You weren’t. It was the “game” he ran that got you.
In the spirit of this, let me share a favorite neg, for women who say they have “all the power.”
YOU WILL AGE FASTER THAN MILK.
Another good rule for men is:
XVII. Do not underestimate your competition.
You may THINK you are “alpha” or interesting, or smart, or doing the right things, but most men have no idea just how hard the competition is working to get the best women.
Men who don’t get the best women wind up dumpster-diving, and prototyping ALL women on the few they can get with this wannabe-alpha (“alphalpha”) approach.
The primary contradiction here is why a man with so many options would want to settle for a dumb, borderline-psycho, gameplaying slut.
Another thing for you supposedly dominant males: how would you handle it if your wife or girlfriend dumped you one day, informing you it was because she was fucking another man?
If you cannot handle THAT, you are unfit for commitment.
Ray Gordon
“Love Conquers Nothing”
http://www.toosmarttofail.com
How many orders for that book of yours so far,Raymond?
Ovid,
The book is 50k for a man who wants the ONLY copy for ONE YEAR, the ultimate head-start and advantage over other men.
If no one pays the 50k, it will be released on Kindle, either at 9.99, or 24.99 (maybe 34.99), and the moment people start buying it, they’ll wish they’d forked over the 50k, if they are wealthy enough that 50k doesn’t mean much to them.
Interesting thing about rich people: it’s not the money, or even the value, but their desire to play god with the poor, that guides their spending habits. That’s why when a man is “successful,” they line up to shower money on him, since they don’t have that power.
Please keep in mind that Roissy is gaming desperate men in the name of his blog (and/or any commercial interests he may develop), as he is any women. The goal isn’t to post what works with women, but what customers THINK will work, becuase, as we know, desperate men are SO brilliant at iknowing which experts know their stuff, just like you’d know which surgoen could do an operation better just by what he says, and his emotional cues while saying them.
Ray Gordon
http://www.toosmarttofail.com
Gotta admit Ray,you sound pretty interesting.I think you should debate Roissy.Are you game?
A good way to dissect this post is to flip the genders, and substitute “rapist” for “bitch.”
The seduction community “theory” has two very distinct sides. The first is an understanding of undesirable female behavior, which, sadly, is the norm. This amounts to KNOWING THE SCORE, and knowing when you’re being shit-tested, bitch-shielded, etc. Ask a dozen “gurus” what it means when a woman does something, and you’ll get the same answer from all.
It’s the SECOND part of the “theory” that divides, namely what to DO about what we know. Some men project the behavior onto the entire gender, and act accordingly, while other men look for the exceptions, which they cherish.
Which would the audience here rather do?
Oh, and I find it funny that women who claim they have no time for PUAs spend their time on this blog rather than running to the nice guys they claim are so superior.
Then there are those who say that the methods would never work, yet the men who use the methods exploit the women they “don’t work” on. It’s one or the other: either the methods work and exploit, or they don’t work, and there is no exploitation.
Women do create the problem they complain about, by acting as if who they choose to fuck is a measure of a man’s character. “Worthy” of her attention? Give me a break. If you call men losers for not getting laid, they are going to think LOGICALLY, and put “getting laid” above anything they might have to do to achieve it. Women who want to stop this from occurring should just date any decent man who asks them out nicely. I’ll be holding my breath awaiting that great day.
Ray Gordon
“Love Conquers Nothing”
http://www.toosmarttofail.com
Ovid,
This “community” is filled with men who harassed my mother while she was dying (yeah “telling your mother” is real alpha) by sending her a threatening letter (not e-mail) warning of “civil or criminal legal consequences” for “providing resources” to me. This was three months before she died of cancer in July 2007. For ten years before they, they would alternate between harassing her, or ridiculing me for living with her (I was her primary caregiver while I worked the internet and did freelance medical transcription).
In 1998, I was the first “pure internet” guru, and offered a $29.95 book (“Outfoxing The Foxes”) that was getting guys laid like demons. This didn’t sit well with the expensive seminar/workshop crowd, since a guy who gets laid for thirty bucks isn’t going to spend $1,000.00 (now $5,000.00) on something else. When harassing me, defaming me, harassing my mother, and even threatening my life (repeatedly) didn’t work, USENET was vacated by the “gurus,” who went to the web, where they could a) steal my ideas (like the pivot), b) profit from them, and c) ban me, and anyone who even MENTIONED me and my work. Again, real alpha, but “Sodini” types need to belong, and side with the aggressive group in large numbers. Anytime I’d post anything to USENET, a BOT would respond with harassment, even links to a “hate website” put up to discredit me. The site was hosted first on free servers, but when I asked the free host if they wanted me calling their sponsors to show them the pages, they came down instantly. The only home they could then find was a WHITE-SUPREMACIST website, thus revealing ties between the “gurus” and the white-supermacists. This connection has been confirmed since, by promo models who are minorities (some have scary tales to relate), and by the “Sodini” types they would offer insider access to in return for cyberbullying me. While this was going on, the rank-and-file stood down, and still does pretty much, because they see the target of a bully as weak, even if I was just ensuring Mom wouldn’t be involvoed in this crap. That is not an issue now, and I’m no longer “living with Mom.” She’s DEAD. I haven’t moved, and it ain’t the tooth fairy paying my rent. Funny thing is, the BEST women never cared about my living situation, since they’d never fuck a guy just because he had a shit job and lived in a shitty apartment alone. In fact, if you need a place to bring women home to fuck, you have enough “game” that you don’t need your own place! I particularly loved the natural golddigger-repellant it gave me, since SMART women knew if I were going to build a life with them, we’d get a new place on our own, how they used to do it. That I fucked several women on my ROOF (before the fire code shut it) was also lost on them.
I don’t disagree with what Roissy is saying on one level. I just think he has the right answers to the wrong questions. I also think he may be a bit young, and not fully aware of the “forest.” I can now see how my teenage targets (the best of all) turned out twenty-five years later.
Once the talk turns to personalities, or marketing, or censorship, then it’s not a debate anymore. I have waited patiently for the old theory to become obsolote, and the market to grow, and for the need to protect Mom to abate (though death was not the ideal way), before I would reclaim this audience. I also waited for Kindle, which takes distribution out of the hands of the “cartel” websites that cross-promote each other, and exclude competition. I used to blame the “gurus,” but it’s the AUDIENCE that rewards this, idiotic men who want to act “alpha” and fit in with the loudmouths who pretend to be, rather than the true alphas, who don’t even land on the radar of the haters.
I’m not debating anyone right now, because my new book is still a trade secret, with a lot of new theory that will change a lot once released, just like my 1998 theory did when I wrote Foxes. In the face of the “Black PR” campaign against me, I had a decision to make, and chose to make my first books free, even though I knew I was making other gurus rich and famous, and costing myself revenue, because my main goal was to spread the theory, and change the gene pool, by changing who women fuck. If the pivot is any indication, I’ve had more impact on the American gene pool than any man, though other gurus got rich by fucking the Red Queen more than I did, even if I’ve made tens of thousands of dollars fromthis work over the years.
This time, I took a “novel” approach of JUST WRITING THE BOOK. I’m not out to rush another product out, not out to profit immediately, though once finished the “publisher” in me will be looking for all the money I can rightfully earn. My goal is to write the BEST book I can, and, thanks to a huge winning streak in January, and the resulting income from being a “horse racing guru” (my free selections have the highest ROI of any public handicapper), served as a nice “advance” on this book, which I can finish without time pressure. I’ve revealed very little of the new stuff here, only enough to hint at my basic disagreement with Roissy. If my book were out, I’d have ripped this article to shreds. He SO doesn’t get it, but hey, who cares, right? He’s got a nice blog, a nice name, and I have internet haters scaring idiot googlers away from me, as if that’s my loss and not theirs. The problem is, the audience that relies on brand-name gurus, mass media, or “social proof” isn’t going to get laid unless the underlying information is high quality.
This time, rather than try to compete against guys twenty years younger, I am using a biographical narrative that shows exactly how I evolved this theory, and I can assure you it wasn’t a quick process. Revisiting my past showed that, even as an “AFC,” I still had some mad “game,” but it was not complete. I had SO many opportunities to take a girlfriend or a wife, that I’m convinced most men could easily do this if they truly wanted to. I don’t think PUAs want to, and I don’t think they should “crumble” by pretending to, just because they think they are “supposed” to.
The title “Love Conquers Nothing” means that women don’t want men because of the way men feel about them. Some men think their love will “conquer all” and reverse a rejection, when it will usually only intensify it.
I’ve fucked some of the hottest woen on this earth, some before I became a “PUA,” and some afterwards. Either approach can work, like the run or the pass in football. If I wanted a woman, I’d rather be competing for her against a weak PUA than a strong AFC, any day of the year. Love it when some PUA asks what to do about an “perfect 10 with a CHODE boyfriend.” Yeah, he’s such a CHODE that he’s fucking a “perfect ten.”
If the market for this had given me my due, I could be properly defending the community to the media, refuting all the counter-arguments from feminists, and I would have released new theory sooner, which would mean y’all wouldn’t still be regurgitating what I laid out so concisely in Outfoxing The Foxes and 29 Reasons Not To Be A Nice Guy.
I must say I LOVE Kindle. The marketing machine of this “community” needs to have its power taken away. Why have prices gone UP as more people offer the services? Some serious price-fixing, and exclusion of advertisers going on, but the public refuses to stop rewarding it.
Ray Gordon
“Love Conquers Nothing”
http://www.toosmarttofail.com
To anyone who addresses me after this, I am going back to finishing Love Conquers Nothing. I’m currently writing long days, and have one final draft, then a polish edit, to finish, before its launch.
I may not read the comments after this one for a while, though if I find some time, I may.
I doubt anyone would still read this who posted stuff like a month ago, but to everyone bitching that being an asshole doesn’t get you a relationship, I’m a born beta here(at least, I am when I like the girl. I am the kind of person who’s really tough and quite the asshole on the outside(circumstances made me like this), but have a gentle side too) and I’ve spent 3 years chasing after a girl like a typical beta did. 2 years in I started to lose hope and didn’t talk to her as often, if at all. I run into her downtown, she asks me out out of nowhere. I was all back to being in love and being the beta, 2nd date, she ditches me for another guy she just happened to see.
I made all the beta mistakes. Apologize too often, remind her that I care about her, talk to her whenever I get even close to the chance, and I know I still make these mistakes.
Same with other girls after that. When I showed them the sweet, caring, nice guy, they lost interest. The girls I treat like normal people(Which means I’m an asshole to them) are all over me, but I don’t care about them. Would you care to explain to me what that problem is?
Besides, from what I read, this isn’t a guide to your perfect relationship and happy marriage, but a guide to find a chick, bang her, and move on.
VII–this is why “good girls” think men are dimwit assholes..
and I agree with the above comment:
“Besides, from what I read, this isn’t a guide to your perfect relationship and happy marriage, but a guide to find a chick, bang her, and move on.”
Then again, this is the way of you martians, I suppose.
Anonymous wrote:
“Same with other girls after that. When I showed them the sweet, caring, nice guy, they lost interest. The girls I treat like normal people(Which means I’m an asshole to them) are all over me, but I don’t care about them. Would you care to explain to me what that problem is?”
Since being back on the dating scene for the last 2 years this is also my EXACT same experience. Whenever I like someone and genuinely care about them, and be honest and straight with them, I never hear so much as a polite reply. The trail goes cold. But when I could care less, evade, dismiss and keep myself to myself, then I get virtually stalked by those women. The pattern is clear. Go figure, something’s not quite right in our society…
Are you dating someone special that you don’t want to lose, like all the others you’ve lost? Are you getting bad vibes because your girlfriend of six months only gets migraines when you try to kiss her goodnight at her doorstep? Does it bother you that your wife is meeting too many perverts in chat rooms on the Internet?
Do you know what men do that women don’t? They fight reality in two areas of their lives. One, they don’t ask for directions when lost and more importantly, two, they think that all women are illogical and inconsistent. But these men never ask themselves why it is that certain men never seem to get rejected by women or face Divorce Court. Is it possible that some men might make the same mistake from one woman to another? Is it possible that women’s choices in men are consistent?
game plan
Successful men know that happiness in romantic relationships is not due to luck – it’s due to using reliable principles and having a plan. Bill Gates didn’t “wing it” when deciding which software market to enter – he had a business plan. If you want to be successful in your long-term romantic relationship, you can’t leave things to chance; you need a plan to help you keep Miss Right mesmerized. The principles that you will get from my column will guide you the way a Thomas Bros. map guides a U.P.S. driver to his destination. If the things you’ve tried with women are only driving your emotions in circles and bringing you pain instead of ecstasy, allow my principles to be your roadmap to happiness.
The first concept that I will define is what I call The Reality Factor . It states: “Things are the way they are. If you go against reality, reality works against you, resulting in pain.” For example, let’s say that one day you decided that there is no such thing as gravity, so you jump off the Empire State Building. While in the air, you can believe what you want, but when you hit the pavement, you will realize that you went against reality, which ultimately resulted in extreme bodily pain.
Another example: You speed down the 5 Freeway at 120 mph at 2 a.m. with the lights off. The Reality Factor says you will experience the pain of having to defend yourself in court.
A third example: your female dates ask you to call them back before the date to confirm and for some strange reason, these call back to confirm dates only end with the dual pains of frustration and disappointment.
Rejection, man’s most despised emotion, is the woman’s way of telling a man that he turns her off. Read this column every week and you will never go through this painful experience again because from now on, the Reality Factor will be your friend, not your nemesis.
The Reality Factor’s cousin is the Bottom Line Factor , which states that “only a woman’s actions truly reflect her feelings for you.” Men who are ignorant when it comes to this powerful concept rationalize a woman’s slights and put-downs. For example, let’s say Caprice breaks a date with Tom. That week, Tom thinks up 144 possible rosy scenarios of why she broke her word. He didn’t think of Reason 145, the only one that counts, which states that Caprice has zero interest in him. Dating Rule No. 1: Women with High Interest always keep dates.
The Bottom Line Factor also states that if Tom were reflective and had thought about it, he would have asked himself how many dates he has broken in his life. Answer? (Hint: less than one.) If, after some psychological detective work, Tom had discovered that Caprice broke the date because her father did not give her a bicycle on her tenth birthday like he had promised; it still wouldn’t have made a difference. The Bottom Line Factor says that if Caprice breaks a date with Tom, she is not interested in him. Sadly, most men call back, asking for another beating, rather than utilizing the Bottom Line Factor .
If you never want to be a guest on the Jerry Springer show, then allow me to protect your heart. If you are a guy who wants to keep Miss Right forever and not share her with her good-looking boss or lose her in divorce court, then please allow me to be your relationship coach.
In two weeks from now, I will answer all of your romantic love questions from a man’s perspective. So set your ego aside, learn to laugh at yourself and I will give you snappy answers to your silly love questions; answers loaded with truth. Do what I say and Miss Right will be robbing banks for you. When I am done with you, you will need more security than Julio Iglesias. To protect the anonymity of the guilty, however, I promise to never use your real name or reveal it. All questions will be answered, but only the best ones will be printed. Please be specific and don’t ramble. In this article, we covered my definitions of the Reality Factor and the Bottom Line Factor, which belie my approach to successful relationships. In next week’s article, I will cover the three factors that make or break a successful long-term romantic relationship.
Hi Doc
Has a woman ever bewildered you with any of these lines?
- Can’t we just be friends?
- I don’t kiss on the first date.
- I need someone who is more exciting.
- Did I tell you about my present lover?
- I think you’re a nice person, but…
If you’ve heard any of these lines, you’re in luck because I have just the right prescription to cure your case of confusion. You are privileged to be reading one of the few romantic love columns in America that comes from a male perspective.
In last week’s article, we covered two major concepts: The Reality Factor (“Things are the way they are. If you go against reality, it will work against you, resulting in pain.”) and The Bottom Line Factor (“Only a woman’s actions truly reflect her feelings toward you.”). These two facts of life form the foundation of my unique approach to relationships, which I call The “System”.
This week, I will give you the framework of The “System”, by naming the three factors that determine success or failure in romantic relationships. These factors are: female Interest Level, female attitude, and male attitude.
is she interested in you?
Interest Level is one of the most overlooked factors in successful relationships. Women refer to their Interest Level as “romantic feelings,” or “love”. Interest Level is a degree of love. What is a “degree” of love? Let me give you an example. Tom is at a party and he asks two women, Jill and Caprice, for their home phone numbers. Jill responds, “I’ll give you my work number instead – I just don’t know you very well.” Caprice, on the other hand, tears a bank deposit slip from her checkbook, circles the home phone number and hands it to Tom with a smile saying “Now you’d better call me!”
Interest Level is a scale that ranges from 0 to 100 percent. In the preceding example, I would place Jill’s Interest Level in Tom at 20% and Caprice’s at 80%. Now think about this: If Jill and Caprice were thoroughbreds running in the seventh at the Del Mar racetrack and Tom were a betting man, whom should he put his money on?
Why is female Interest Level so important? Because the closer the woman’s Interest Level gets to 100%, the more she likes you and the more fun you will have – whether it’s on the first date or your 20th anniversary. In sharp contrast, the further away her Interest Level is from 100%, the less she likes you and the more she will eat, nag, and watch Ricki Lake. To you Psychology majors: a man should only love a woman who loves him first.
Of the three factors that make or break romantic relationships, the woman’s Interest Level is the single most important factor, not the man’s Interest level .
it’s all about attitude
In addition to overlooking the woman’s Interest Level , men typically overlook the importance of the female attitude – a woman’s morals and temperament. Even though your Miss Right is beautiful, both inside and out, shouldn’t you still ask yourself whether she is going to be part of the crew or part of the cargo? To you Psych majors, this means, “Is she high maintenance or low maintenance?” If you are going to serve time with Miss Right , isn’t it best for your comfort level and sanity to find a wife who rubs your back and compliments you once in a while just for taking out the trash? Of course it is.
So what comprises a good female attitude? Integrity, a giving nature and flexibility. A woman’s integrity is made up of honesty, loyalty and trust, in other words you should ask yourself, “Would I go into business with this person?” before you give up your freedom.
To find out whether Miss Right is a giver or a taker, ask yourself, “Is she on my side? Is she sweet, serene and supportive at least some of the time?” One sign of a giving wife is one who says, “I like to do things to make my husband happy”, when she talks with her girlfriends.
As for the definition of flexibility – let me tell you what it isn’t: hardheaded, structured, stubborn, intransigent, nor is it personified by nagging – the most cruel and common punishment known to man today.
Flexibility is when she’s willing to try something new – even if it means going fishing with you once and baiting the hook with a creepy crawler.
If a woman is normal, you make her like you more or less by the way you treat her, although you cannot affect her attitude. That’s how she comes wired. So it is your job to do the things that could raise her Interest Level toward 100%. How? By exhibiting the proper male attitude, made up of confidence, control and Challenge .
the male attitude
Most men know what confidence is and they even know that women love confident men. The other relationship experts, who are from a female perspective, don’t tell men specifically what to do to achieve this confidence. If you read my column every week, you will learn how to naturally appear confident, even when you’re a nervous wreck inside!
Control in my “System” stands for self-control, not controlling the woman. It means controlling your choices and actions in spite of what your emotions urge you to do. For example, if you’re at a dance club and a gentleman hustles your girlfriend, you would know to take this as a compliment to your taste, instead of wanting to throw a chair at his head. By practicing self-control and not making a fool of yourself, you raise her Interest Level to even loftier heights.
Challenge is nothing more than playing hard to get. You do this because the woman is happiest when she does the chasing and when she thinks it is her idea to pursue a romantic relationship, rather than yours. If you do what I say, you’ll have to beat ‘em off with a stick!
If you would like to purchase and/or have any questions about my famous System, e-mail me at doclove@askmen.com
hit me on the digital
if that’s not too simple
you could lounge in union square and await face-to-face visuals
DocLove’s own game?
He’s a “guru” with a big website (askmen.com), and some measure of STATUS, and, presumably, MONEY.
Say guys, why do you think a chick would be imperssed by your status and money? To “bask” in it, or to SPEND it (the money) and FLAUNT it (the status?). Buying a golddigging whore is NOT game.
If another guy hits on your girlfriend, it’s up to HER to reject him, unless she expects you to FIGHT her battles for her, and if she’s like that, I hope your heatlh-insurance premium is paid up.
How much has “Doc” spent on women in the past year? I know of “gurus” who bottle-pop in VIP rooms and slip cash to women on the “downlow” and then preach to their own students that money and status (which they GET from other men) doesn’t matter. Yeah right. Just like looks don’t matter if you’er a chick, or the guys who react to looks don’t want them deployed in the bedroom.
The “reality factor” deals with HOW a woman feels about you, not WHY, and not even WHO is doing the “feeling.” Women are so “fucked up,” yet you are letting them bend you to their world view, to the point where you become as fucked up as them. Amazing.
Most guys who view women this way can AFFORD to, because they can “delete” that little money thing from their minds, treating it as “normal,” but it’s only “normal” in houses of prostitution, or relationships baed on golddigging.
Avoiding rejection? Shit, if you don’t get rejected, and brutally, from time to time, there are two causes:
1. Your standards are too low; and
2. You aren’t following your heart.
That’s like only applying for jobs you know you’re going to get.
If women’s selection processes are so fucked up, why would men try to cater to them? If women are so deceitful that they don’t tell guys the score from day one, why do they want LIARS? Why women want to BE liars is obvious — it’s to their advantage. Why men would want a liar for anything other than sex, is not.
Take away her “bitch shield” and all you are left with is a BITCH WITH A CLEAR SHOT.
Does “DocLove” have a REAL NAME?” My theory is most “PUAs” don’t reveal their real names, because google would expose too many lies about their love lives, not to us, but to the women. If he does use his real name somewhere this does not apply to him, but it applies to many more.
And what the fuck is a guy with a girlfriend doing taking her to a nightclub again? Desire to pay cover charges and for overpriced drinks that won’t even cause him to flunk a DUI? To flaunt his pussy-supply to other men? Why not just walk through Harlem at 2:00 a.m. waving $1,000 in cash?
A woman who treats you good is not necessarily a good woman. Often she’s just a temporarily tamed BULLY, which is why you had to go through all that shit in the first place. Also it’s uaully for men who can’t attract the quality women and are left trying to get quality treatment from the bitches and sluts.
Nope my system is nothing like what you think.
Ray Gordon, you really should learn to try some research before jumping to conclusions like that.
Try my radio show for a start.
http://www.wsradio.com/internet-talk-radio-schedule.cfm
The Doc Love Show Understanding Women for Men Only.
I am not a PUA.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/47140/Doc-Love-The-System-Synopsis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_Love
Doc Love (real name Tom Hodges) is a relationship coach for heterosexual men who has devoted over 35 years in active research with over 10,000 women. He has authored several books on the subject of how to date women and how to keep them interested in a romantic relationship. He also writes a free weekly column, which is published on AskMen.com among other websites, and conducts a radio talk show with his sidekick Jeff Biletnikoff, which addresses callers’ questions on women and dating. He has appeared on a Fox television interview. The philosophy he advocates for dating is called “The System”, which is laid out in his book, “The System: The Dating Dictionary.”
The primary concept in his teachings is for a man to be a Challenge to the woman he is interested in. Challenge, is the most important reason why a woman is attracted to and chooses to stay in a relationship with one man over another. Challenge is defined as “allowing the woman to do the pursuing”. Doc Love is the only “love doctor” to talk about the necessity of a man being a Challenge in order to achieve and sustain a successful relationship.[dubious – discuss]
Other key ideas in “The System” include a list of Male Traits and Female Traits that are necessary for romantic love to exist. The Male Traits are Confidence (subdivided into Self-Confidence and Self-Esteem), Control (subdivided into Discipline, Patience, and Self-Control), and Challenge. The Female Traits are Integrity (subdivided into Honesty, Loyalty, and Trust), Giving Nature, Flexibility, and a lack of emotional baggage from prior relationships.
Interest Level is another of Doc Love’s key concepts and encompasses the idea that the level of a woman’s romantic interest in a man is not static, but is raised and lowered by the man’s actions – specifically by the degree to which he is or is not a Challenge. Specifically, if a person’s Interest Level (defined as a percentage from 0 to 100%) in another is above 50%, they feel romantically attracted to them, and the higher the percentage, the more intense the attraction is. He also believes that while men will leave a relationship if their interest in a woman drops below 50%, a woman will not leave unless her interest drops below 40% due to her bonding nature; in addition, a woman’s Interest Level being between 40-50% is a serious problem since it will never go back above 50% and the relationship is doomed to fail, yet she will still stay with, date, or even marry men at this Interest Level despite the total and permanent lack of attaction on her part. He also blames this phenomenon for the fact most divorces and breakups are started by women, and says men need his System and to be more of a Challenge.
Doc Love’s additional ideas from his philosophy include bringing salesmanship into the area of dating, namely by “closing the deal” with a woman by getting her HOME phone number.
Doc Love differs from the “pickup artists” of the seduction community in that his focus is on teaching men to have happy long-term relationships rather than to seduce women for one-night stands. Nonetheless, their teachings have some similarities and might be said to complement one another. Both have as their primary target audience the nice guy who tends to befriend rather than attract the women he is romantically interested in (“Wimpus Americanus” in Doc Love’s terminology – the seduction community term is Average Frustrated Chump) and both criticize this man’s approach for being too eager to please, claiming that his accommodating behavior is precisely what is turning women off.
Doc Love resides in San Diego, and he maintains a website that advertises his dating self-help material.
Cheers Tom.
P.S A MAN SHOULD NEVER SHOW OFF HIS $$$$
Rule #17
Never listen to what women say, simply watch what they do.
Rule #18
Never take the advice of a beta or a woman when it comes to getting laid.
The betas know nothing, and the woman has already LJBF’d you!
The trouble with being an asexual woman is that it can be difficult (though bemusing at times) to navigate through a hypersexualized culture where this type of nonsense actually seems to pass for acceptable social behavior.
I still feel bad when I reject the advances of men (I do it as nicely as I can), but reading this makes me wonder if I should. It appears that I’m very fortunate indeed to have escaped the curse of needing to be desirable to my fellow human beings at the expense of dignity, kindness, or rational.
This was a really disheartening read. Thanks for showing me some of what I’m missing out on, though.
[...] “The Sixteen Commandments of Poon.” Roissy in [...]
Stumbled across this page by accident. It was good for a laugh…in the pathetic kind of way. Your a sad, sad man. It is a shame you know so little and preach so much. I hope you find something that can make you truly happy one day. These thoughts that you derived out of whatever limiting experience you had with the women in your life leaves me to believe you have an enormous empty void. Good luck with your life. hope you leave this world fulfilled….
You should provide your bullshit spouting services to farms who need crop fertilizing.
Lots of sore ego’s and feminist manifestii sheeple sure don’t like Roissy. If anything it’s a sign he’s spot on.
This is some really good shit. I will promise that I start practicing this by tomorrow!
When you have the goods, most games work. Its simply called dominance. I just act the way I want. If I had to nervously go over the manual, I would already break a rule that ought to be instinctual. If I even smell manipulation, its mowed down into a trench. Treating this like manual is very beta to me. It should be used as a diagnostic for men who seem to have this problem.
[...] The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon [...]
If you are a white guy visiting the UK take this tip. Get a bottle of potasium permanganate (I’m not good at spelling) and black hair dye. Use the p.p. to dye your skin dark brown. The thing to remember is that you must use a bit of pp in your eyes or else they are too light. Leave a bit of pink on the palms of your hand and souls of your feet. Dye your hair black. English sluts go crazy over black and brown men and you will get plenty of fucks day after day. Go to London, the white men in London are mostly homos, leaving plenty of hetero-fuck. Do not go to places like Manchester, white men there like black women, this keeps the white English bitches in check.
well played sir
The guy who wrote this treatise obviously has a lot of time on his hands, doesn’t actually know many women.
Here’s some better advice.
Be a nice guy, pick up the check, show respect. Sometimes a relationship works out, sometimes it doesn’t, but there’s lots of lovable pretty women out there and lots of wonderful, kind, sexy men.
Women like strong men with lots of heart, not weasels.
Lots of hurt women commenting here. Why would they be so defensive if they really just found Roissy ‘funny’ or ‘pathetic’? One would think that, if this were the case, they would just go about their day.
It seems that Roissy has provoked a response precisely because he is correct. And this knowledge, widely disseminated, is threatening to female power.
As many of us know, there is a certain disconnect between a woman’s conscious mind and her sexual desires.
But not a total disconnect! They know that this is true enough to be offended by it. I would go so far as to say that the offence is caused by a man (Roissy) knowing MORE about how women’s minds work than they know themselves.
Yes, that is the cause of all the hurt here.
Just look at the advice from hurt women:
“Be a nice guy” – really? But nice guys are only good for paying your way while you run off and fuck alphas. Don’t even try to deny it.
“pick up the check” – and here we have it! Nice guys are to pay women’s way, even when they have equal or greater earning potential. The guy who pays to spend time with a woman is a lickspittle, and she is a prostitute.
“show respect” – since Roissy’s utterly ‘disrespectful’ article provoked such an intense emotional reaction from you and the other hurt women, I’d assume that a man gets what he wants by following the guidelines above.
“Women like strong men with lots of heart, not weasels.”
Alphas, not betas. Right. We’re clear on that. Hence this website.